Eldron Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 I Agree that there are a lot of guys in CSA that also are doing things for themselves. Like how they have ruined the Giro del Capo, tried to host a Tour of SA, Tour de Eden, Mzanzi tour, Tour of the Freestate, etc... and all of them fail, because the guys in charge do it for their own pocket and never thought "hey, let us all trying to do our own thing come together to get one thing to work". And more with your example, the fact that our money isn't supporting national teams to represent our country. It's a sad state of affairs. A lot of us would like to get involved but belong to multiple federations and have lives, jobs, wives etc with very little time so the only real platform we have is social media moaning. What ever happened to "doing the right thing"?
gogo@ Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Well, technically its your choice to take part in their sanctioned race. If it was a TAX, everyone buying a bicycle would be paying for a licence, like your TV licence. But if YOU CHOOSE to take part in a race that is sanctioned, then YOU CHOOSE to pay for it. The organizers CHOSE to sanction the race, because it will pull the 10% of the fully licenced racing field. The funrider field is large enough to uphold the race, but the organizers see benefit in pulling in the CSA.Nonsense.You organize a race, you have to get sanctioning from CSA under the Safety at Sports and Recreational Events Act. You don't do that? CSA will threaten to have SAPS come close your event down.Before anyone gets close to choosing to participate, CSA, under the laws that govern all sporting codes in SA, makes sure THERE IS NO CHOICE.PPA managed to circumvent this, so yes, you can go ride K2C and CTCT without CSA threatening the event organizers because they lost that case in court. The rest of us get the big stick.
gogo@ Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 When someone points a gun to you head and say hand over wallet you can CHOOSE to hand over your money and get robbed or you can CHOOSE to refuse and get shot & robbed. Simply having a choice between bad options doesn't make the situation fine. Maybe more organisers should be brave enough and go the Karoo2Coast route and drop the CSA sanctioning, they seem to survive quite fine without it (although I suspect sometimes that would be a requirement from local authorities to be allowed to host a race)We tried that. We got the stick waved at us. There is also the problem with insurance and safety so you have to have a VERY brave committee of volunteers prepared to take on CSA and Joe Public who will threaten to sue you should you so much as scratch his bike.
Zeffer Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Maybe its time someone (like CSA) makes a list of what CSA should do or is doing and list the benefits clearly so we can understand exactly how it works and what we can expect or not expect. Like how does development work and how does it get funded. I know there is also the UCI fees that needs to be paid by CSA. Oh and BTW you have to pay to attend the AGM...
Skubarra Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Ok maybe better examples You don't like e-tolls - Well you can CHOOSE not to drive a car No, you can drive another road. You don't like paying your tv license because you don't watch SABC - Well you can CHOOSE not to own a tv Or you can stream TV on your laptop or computer. I see no reason why someone who cycles purely for recreation should stop moaning and get involved in cycling organisation & politics. They have every right to moan about the grudge tax they have to pay to do events, even if moaning is not going to help. Because races are races, not recreation. Recreation is your club ride in the cradle every weekend. You want results, tallied against others, with rules of engagement, then you take part in some sanctioned races and pay the levies. I see the point I am trying to make is completely lost on you By saying I can choose not to do a race is giving me an option of 2 k&k choices and then expect me to be grateful for having choices. Your "races are races" argument makes sense when I enter a provincial league event, not a local church or school funride where the results are nothing more than bragging rights.
Mongoose! Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Your "races are races" argument makes sense when I enter a provincial league event, not a local church or school funride where the results are nothing more than bragging rights. Sadly these fun rides almost disappear as it is not cost effective anymore.CSA sadly to blame for sure!When I started cycling, there was such event almost every weekend...
ChrisF Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 My approach to clubs and associations:If you offer value I pay to join. If I like the things that you are doing, I get more involved. I see no reason why any club should object to this and expect my involvement and my payment before offering anything of value in return. Done my stints in clubs. Done my fair share of committee work, arranging events etc etc ... I now join and pay if it offers value to my life. I pay my fees, and attend as my schedule allows. I DONT get involved with the committees and arrangements - my schedule is way too hectice to take this on. BUT, since I dont "add value" I also dont complain when something is not 100%. I thank those that contributed. The above applies to a club OF MY CHOICE ! CSA is not "voluntary" ..... When something is "forced upon me", then I expect it to WORK, and do so properly. So when I drive 250km to attend a fun ride in the Boland, I fail to see why I must pay CSA ! To then hear CSA does NOT support our young riders .... THIS does not sit well with me ! Until such time that CSA "adds value" I certainly WONT be funding them !!
ChrisF Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Sadly these fun rides almost disappear as it is not cost effective anymore.CSA sadly to blame for sure!When I started cycling, there was such event almost every weekend... Been searching for fun rides ... way less this year than last !! The bulk are in Worcester and Oudtshoorn. We will do a few more Worcester trips, just a tad far to do an Oudtshoorn trip for a short fun ride with the 6 year old ...
JA-Q001 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 I see the point I am trying to make is completely lost on you By saying I can choose not to do a race is giving me an option of 2 k&k choices and then expect me to be grateful for having choices. Your "races are races" argument makes sense when I enter a provincial league event, not a local church or school funride where the results are nothing more than bragging rights. Well, the choices are maybe not to your liking, but that's your perception of the choices at hand. Its the same as the majority in this country, they have a choice of voting for any party, but their perception drives them to vote for one party or else apartheid returns. There are a lot of mtbers on here that will gladly tell you that its more worth while to pay for a bike park than enter a race. And if you want the bragging rights of winning that church race officially, then pay for the sanctioning, simple.
JA-Q001 Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Done my stints in clubs. Done my fair share of committee work, arranging events etc etc ... I now join and pay if it offers value to my life. I pay my fees, and attend as my schedule allows. I DONT get involved with the committees and arrangements - my schedule is way too hectice to take this on. BUT, since I dont "add value" I also dont complain when something is not 100%. I thank those that contributed. The above applies to a club OF MY CHOICE ! CSA is not "voluntary" ..... When something is "forced upon me", then I expect it to WORK, and do so properly. So when I drive 250km to attend a fun ride in the Boland, I fail to see why I must pay CSA ! To then hear CSA does NOT support our young riders .... THIS does not sit well with me ! Until such time that CSA "adds value" I certainly WONT be funding them !! Well, you can belong to the club and not to CSA, the only problem comes in when you choose to not only attend club rides, and want to take part in races that are sanctioned. But again, I do agree that the mismanagement of the money is frustrating and I also wish that they could be more open on why they spend the money as they do and what their plans are to use the money more wisely to help fund our sport and help it on the international level.
mikeking Posted February 15, 2018 Author Posted February 15, 2018 Well, the choices are maybe not to your liking, but that's your perception of the choices at hand. Its the same as the majority in this country, they have a choice of voting for any party, but their perception drives them to vote for one party or else apartheid returns. There are a lot of mtbers on here that will gladly tell you that its more worth while to pay for a bike park than enter a race. And if you want the bragging rights of winning that church race officially, then pay for the sanctioning, simple.Please go back to the OP, I fully understand that it is my choice to decide whether to pay or not. But what are we actually paying for? I have no idea!
Eldron Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 If anybody wants to make a difference they're looking for a receptionist... www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2018/2/14/vacancy-receptionist
Dicky DQ Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Well, technically its your choice to take part in their sanctioned race. If it was a TAX, everyone buying a bicycle would be paying for a licence, like your TV licence. But if YOU CHOOSE to take part in a race that is sanctioned, then YOU CHOOSE to pay for it. The organizers CHOSE to sanction the race, because it will pull the 10% of the fully licenced racing field. The funrider field is large enough to uphold the race, but the organizers see benefit in pulling in the CSA.Oops I think you missed a beat there. Event organizers are forced to affiliate the race if they want to have UCI licences riders in their events, which is blackmail seeing as they do nothing for the event except ask for part of the entry. So technically I do not choose to take part in a CSA event, i am obliged to pay them to take part. I have yet to see any, I repeat, ANY race organizer see ANY benefit from allowing CSA to blood-suck part of the entry fee for fear of having part of their field eliminated. So to counter your point, being a CSA affiliated race does not "PULL" any riders, it just allows them to enter without fear of sanction. Back to my point if CSA did anything I believe 99% of cyclists would gladly pay the fee. This is a grudge purchase nothing more nothing less. BUT IT NOT NEED BE!!
Dicky DQ Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 We tried that. We got the stick waved at us. There is also the problem with insurance and safety so you have to have a VERY brave committee of volunteers prepared to take on CSA and Joe Public who will threaten to sue you should you so much as scratch his bike.Ja and the insurance they provide is not paid for. Ha Ha ha
Dicky DQ Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Well, the choices are maybe not to your liking, but that's your perception of the choices at hand. Its the same as the majority in this country, they have a choice of voting for any party, but their perception drives them to vote for one party or else apartheid returns. There are a lot of mtbers on here that will gladly tell you that its more worth while to pay for a bike park than enter a race. And if you want the bragging rights of winning that church race officially, then pay for the sanctioning, simple.Are you the CSA spokesperson? If so give us the info you want us to have that changes our minds, easy. Till CSA starts doing something for the money they do get and not putting in their pockets you are not going to win much favour. Cycling SA cyclists have been sucking on the hind tit; if it was not for PPA, social cycling would also be all but dead. These are facts that you need to provide proof of to the contrary.
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