Be careful in the West Rand! (and SA in general!)

[Dirkitech]

Yes... Sadly it is your right to be a "dwis" at your own peril too. I think you miss the point of this. You out of a 1000 do it. I am happy for you. My assumptions/comments are clearly not directed at you personally but clearly the depth of this discussion alludes you and even due to popular belief this discussion isn't about you. Its a generalized statement of the general cyclist attitude.

 

But please continue feeling offended

 

EDIT-

Oh and I edit fixing spelling mistakes else that's all you will have to use as a argument.

 

EDIT2-

Screw this I'm out. If you want to cycle in the middle of the road. Good luck and safe miles. 

It is pointless fixing spelling when your grammar is wrong. In spite of your continued assumptions, I wouldn't moan about your spelling as that is the least of our problems here.

 

You are clearly misinterpreting a lot of things here- where do you see offence taken?

 

You're only right that the post discussion isn't about me, but the discussion between us definitely includes me. Not sure where popular belief comes when referring to a single person in this context.

 

Not sure what you're on about, but don't encourage people to cycle in the middle of the road, even sarcastically, it does nothing beneficial to anyone.

[Quagga]

We have touched on this before too.

 

Even though the net effect is almost exactly the same when a car must wait for a tractor, donkey cart, truck, learner driver or cyclist, the perception is very different.

 

Usually when cyclists block the roads, its done so out of choice, these other examples are often out of necessity and people react differently that. Thats where these "self entitlement" , "think they own the road" comments from. I am not saying they are right, but it does help when you understand where they coming from.

 

People have empathy for learner drivers/tractors/donkey carts, but much less so when it comes to a "bunch of arrogant guys on their R100k bikes who drink snob coffee"

For sure and the are idiots. however there are many drivers who show us to get left / of the road then shout in passing "you holding up traffic" .

 

In this case 3 of us, riding single file towards St Johns intersection with our wheels on or just left of yellow line(before the shoulder start) and just right of all the crap laying on the left of us. 

Why can THOSE people have empathy is my question

[eddy]

Listen, and read carefully to what you had described as BS. I specifically spoke about a single rider. How that constitutes riding abreast is disconcerting.

 

 

As a final comment to this drivel.

 

1. Yes it was BS cause you were comparing riding abreast (I spoke specifically about a single rider) to a woman being raped. Totally not the same thing. You choose to ride abreast (I spoke specifically about a single rider). No woman choose to get raped. The equivalent would be a woman coming outside naked with a Board stating "I have a right to be naked" (Forget about the public indecency LAW) and expect nothing to happen. See the correlation between breaking the law?

 

2. Yes cyclist have the right to be on the road WHEN THEY FOLLOW THE LAW. The OP posted 2 cyclist riding abreast. Him tooting at them and then they wanted to get aggressive with him. 

2.1 Cyclist were breaking the law riding abreast. FACT

2.2 Motorist was in his right to prevent a accident by tooting to get them single file. FACT

 

Those were not the posts I was responding to, nor was it the question I posed

 

Now can you acknowledge that the cyclists were wrong in riding abreast braking the law and then got aggressive defending their illegal activity by wanting to assault a motorist?

 

(This topic is so not worth my time anymore)

 

Are you at least prepared to accept this statement : "All cyclists are entitled to be on the road and all motorists have an obligation to wait until it is safe before overtaking." ?

 

Please just, as a starting point to get rational debate going, answer this question

[Patchelicious]

For sure and the are idiots. however there are many drivers who show us to get left / of the road then shout in passing "you holding up traffic" .

 

In this case 3 of us, riding single file towards St Johns intersection with our wheels on or just left of yellow line(before the shoulder start) and just right of all the crap laying on the left of us. 

Why can THOSE people have empathy is my question

Sure there are fringe cases. But we can't always use a specific example to counter the general norm. 

[Quagga]

 

2. Yes cyclist have the right to be on the road WHEN THEY FOLLOW THE LAW.

 

 

 

 

Then 90% of motorist have NO right to the road

[Patchelicious]

Then 90% of motorist have NO right to the road

Maybe they don't, but that doesn't excuse cyclists behaviour.

 

What is it with people (not specifically you) and this "them them them them" way of looking at things.

[Quagga]

Maybe they don't, but that doesn't excuse cyclists behaviour.

 

What is it with people (not specifically you) and this "them them them them" way of looking at things.

 

For sure fully agee. 

I am one who will easily tell a cyclist he is being a clot when skipping a red light...ask Karma :-)

 

And then we were told to F-Off but we knew that would happen. 

[Patchelicious]

For sure fully agee. 

I am one who will easily tell a cyclist he is being a clot when skipping a red light...ask Karma :-)

 

And then we were told to F-Off but we knew that would happen. 

I am all for us doing a little self policing.

 

BUT we must decide what the purpose is. Is it to makes us personally feel a little better by venting a bit or do we actually want them to change what they are doing?

 

Its easy to tell another cyclist that they are a  "insert insult here" because they did something wrong, and often feels good because "I told him how it is". But will that actually change their behaviour in the positive direction?

 

Or do we get better real world results by saying doing something a little more subtle. Like a thumbs downs maybe or a "hey dude, thats not the coolest thing to do".

 

I have found that telling somebody that they are a poooos very seldom makes them less of a poooos.

[karma]

I am all for us doing a little self policing.

 

BUT we must decide what the purpose is. Is it to makes us personally feel a little better by venting a bit or do we actually want them to change what they are doing?

 

Its easy to tell another cyclist that they are a  "insert insult here" because they did something wrong, and often feels good because "I told him how it is". But will that actually change their behaviour in the positive direction?

 

Or do we get better real world results by saying doing something a little more subtle. Like a thumbs downs maybe or a "hey dude, thats not the coolest thing to do".

 

I have found that telling somebody that they are a poooos very seldom makes them less of a poooos.

 

Good point. I think a lot of it is policing others and feeling like the man, but mostly, and the real reason: you make the rest look bad. (you being the culprit). 

 

If Pietie skips the light, it makes no difference to my day, but onlookers and motorists form the opinion we're all the same. 

As Quagga said, we see groups of riders jumping lights, tell them hey, look, don't do that, just to be spat on and called self-righteous. 

 

I won't lie, I stop, assess and ride over red lights 5am in the morning on my commute in the dodgy areas, but it is for safety, and there is no one around to witness or be affected by my decision. 

 

It's human nature to generalize, we all do it in some way. 

[Patchelicious]

snip

 

It's human nature to generalize, we all do it in some way. 

 

Self fullfiling sentence. 

[Quagga]

I am all for us doing a little self policing.

 

BUT we must decide what the purpose is. Is it to makes us personally feel a little better by venting a bit or do we actually want them to change what they are doing?

 

Its easy to tell another cyclist that they are a  "insert insult here" because they did something wrong, and often feels good because "I told him how it is". But will that actually change their behaviour in the positive direction?

 

Or do we get better real world results by saying doing something a little more subtle. Like a thumbs downs maybe or a "hey dude, thats not the coolest thing to do".

 

I have found that telling somebody that they are a poooos very seldom makes them less of a poooos.

What we did.... Or maybe it was "hey okes that was a red light"

[Dirkitech]

I am all for us doing a little self policing.

 

BUT we must decide what the purpose is. Is it to makes us personally feel a little better by venting a bit or do we actually want them to change what they are doing?

 

Its easy to tell another cyclist that they are a  "insert insult here" because they did something wrong, and often feels good because "I told him how it is". But will that actually change their behaviour in the positive direction?

 

Or do we get better real world results by saying doing something a little more subtle. Like a thumbs downs maybe or a "hey dude, thats not the coolest thing to do".

 

I have found that telling somebody that they are a poooos very seldom makes them less of a poooos.

I like the thumbs-down idea. A while back I wondered what non-threatening/offensive alternative I can gesture to offenders as opposed to throwing a hand up in the air in a questioning fashion (and obviously getting predictable zaps every time). So I will try that next time and if it works, well you may be on to something.

[Patchelicious]

What we did.... Or maybe it was "hey okes that was a red light"

Well then you did what you could. 

 

Maybe after their reaction to you, they went home, had a think and changed. All we know is that you did your bit, now they must decide to do theirs. You cant MAKE them, dont try.

[Patchelicious]

I like the thumbs-down idea. A while back I wondered what non-threatening/offensive alternative I can gesture to offenders as opposed to throwing a hand up in the air in a questioning fashion (and obviously getting predictable zaps every time). So I will try that next time and if it works, well you may be on to something.

It works very well, you should see peoples faces when they can see your disappointment in them. It elicits a very different reaction than a middle finger 

[MTB-More]

 

And then you ask yourself why motorists feel the way they do

[karma]

 

And then you ask yourself why motorists feel the way they do

 

What happened to your "last comment on this drivel" ?