karma Posted June 14, 2018 Share It is more linked to where there is not a proper shoulder to the road, the people arguing that it is safer to rather ride abreast than in single file. Me personally prefer to ride single file because although there might be a sufficient shoulder to the road you never know when a rider swerve a bit out Depends on the situation, on the road, the riders and the vehicle passing. Single file provides more space to pass, but then the whole argument around shorter distance applies when in a group. 2 riders, in my opinion should pause their chat, go single file and assess traffic. The 2-abreast science doesn't always apply, some drivers will try to pass regardless of how many abreasts you ride. We've had cars refuse to pass us through Camps Bay, even when there was ample space, it depends on the person behind the wheel, and the specific day, their mood and other factors I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted June 14, 2018 Share Not sure if you being serious here... You know if they all stay single file the vehicle would not even need to leave his lane to pass them? Chapter 7 of the CSIR Guidelines for human settlement and planning specify that the width of a passenger vehicle is defined as being 1.8 m and that of a bus 2.6 m. It also notes the width of a multi-use lane as being between 3.1 m and 3.5 m. It is therefore abundantly clear that even if the cyclist keeps well left (i'd say, 50 cm from the lefthand curb), there is NOT enough space for a motorist to pass a cyclist with a safe margin without at least some part of the motor vehicle having to move into the oncoming lane. So you are wrong, even in single file, motorists have to cross the centreline, and therefore may only overtake when it is safe for all (that includes the cyclist) to do so. I am being serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDooperSnooper Posted June 14, 2018 Share There are and have been so many threads about cyclists vs motorists and who's right/wrong on this forum it is not even funny anymore. I always seem to be late to the party, having to read through most of the exchanges before posting anything (worthwhile). One thing I have noticed over and over again is that in this country of ours NOBODY is ever wrong because it is always someone else's fault. We always justify what we do, even if it is the most irresponsible, inconsiderate or idiotic action ever. I do the same - I hate to be wrong. With this in mind, let's face it. Nothing as it is currently will change if forced upon anybody, as: 1. There will never be proper enforcement of laws/regulations 2. Refer to the second paragraph above. I would like to be the start of that change, or be part of it:I already feel that I try to be considerate to others and aim to follow those rules and laws in society intended for our safety. But what can I as a cyclist or motorist do MORE to make others see and understand that consideration of other fellow human beings' lives take absolute top honours? For a while I have been looking at the psychological drive little things can have on one's behaviour (I agree this won't apply to everybody). Little things like Strava KOM's/QOM's/PR's, Vitality rewards, badges on your Apple Watch/Garmin device/Android gadget etc. How we go out of our way to get the badge/smoothie for the week. Can't we as a collective look at a solution to all of this filthy behaviour we all participate in each day instead of continuing to play the blame game? Some form of reward program for being patient, courteous, safe etc. which may result in palpable rewards/discounts/prizes. I am referring to some way where people can see and reward others in a positive way to change behaviour for the better. I am willing to give freebies/discount in my occupation for those who have earned such a reward if I can, as I am sure others will do too. Obviously "good" behaviour should be a natural thing and not depend on "reward", but we all need to agree that we are in dire straits. Something big is bound to happen soon, and I really hope it is good rather than bad. Any thoughts from you clever okes/okettes on the Hub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipV Posted June 14, 2018 Share Wrt this thread, we must remember that the comments section on Facebook, news sites and Twitter are the toilet of the internet. Even if you polish the turd, it's not worth listening to the opinion of the turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB-More Posted June 15, 2018 Share Chapter 7 of the CSIR Guidelines for human settlement and planning specify that the width of a passenger vehicle is defined as being 1.8 m and that of a bus 2.6 m. It also notes the width of a multi-use lane as being between 3.1 m and 3.5 m. It is therefore abundantly clear that even if the cyclist keeps well left (i'd say, 50 cm from the lefthand curb), there is NOT enough space for a motorist to pass a cyclist with a safe margin without at least some part of the motor vehicle having to move into the oncoming lane. So you are wrong, even in single file, motorists have to cross the centreline, and therefore may only overtake when it is safe for all (that includes the cyclist) to do so. I am being serious. You are getting technical with regards to a discipline issue with cyclists riding abreast... Seeing as the road is to narrow anyways lets just take all of it. That mentality is wrong. I will say again. If you frequent roads with no shoulder then invest in a MTB. Its a lot heavier and will make you a lot stronger for race day. You can even fit a 42 Chainring at the front so you can go 60km/h on the gravel next to the road. Cyclist should stop finding loopholes to justify them being in the road. Rather find a loophole to get you off the road and into safety. The fact that you are content with only Road bikes does not justify holding up traffic and being in the road where there clearly isn't enough space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris NewbyFraser Posted June 15, 2018 Share Klippies and Cola and a very very low EQ/IQ is a dangerous mixThrow in the man and his phallic essential, the bakkie, and the mix becomes lethal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDooperSnooper Posted June 15, 2018 Share Wrt this thread, we must remember that the comments section on Facebook, news sites and Twitter are the toilet of the internet. Even if you polish the turd, it's not worth listening to the opinion of the turd.Very true! On this forum we also need to be careful not to stoop to that level, but rather focus on the suggestion made by @Eldron and look for a solution. Blaming white men with small (bakkies), entitled roadies etc, etc, is not gonna solve it. We need to all take ownership and institute this change ourselves. "Let's make South AFrica great again!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 15, 2018 Share Wrt this thread, we must remember that the comments section on Facebook, news sites and Twitter are the toilet of the internet. Even if you polish the turd, it's not worth listening to the opinion of the turd.You are 100% right they are, but that does not mean its the minority of the people using the road though.... thats the scary part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 15, 2018 Share Very true! On this forum we also need to be careful not to stoop to that level, but rather focus on the suggestion made by @Eldron and look for a solution. Blaming white men with small (bakkies), entitled roadies etc, etc, is not gonna solve it. We need to all take ownership and institute this change ourselves. "Let's make South AFrica great again!" Dude, I have been saying this for years. I even, at own expense ran a campaign about it #ConsiderateCycling Gave away Garmin Varia prizes and all. Do you know who shot it down the most? People on the Hub!!! Only people who really helped was BDF (RIP dude) Gerald and the Wheelers and the guys behind @mybicyclesafety who still need to claim their Varia I promised them. Maybe the timing is a bit better and I should run it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkitech Posted June 15, 2018 Share You are getting technical with regards to a discipline issue with cyclists riding abreast... Seeing as the road is to narrow anyways lets just take all of it. That mentality is wrong. I will say again. If you frequent roads with no shoulder then invest in a MTB. Its a lot heavier and will make you a lot stronger for race day. You can even fit a 42 Chainring at the front so you can go 60km/h on the gravel next to the road. Cyclist should stop finding loopholes to justify them being in the road. Rather find a loophole to get you off the road and into safety. The fact that you are content with only Road bikes does not justify holding up traffic and being in the road where there clearly isn't enough spaceThe bold text is misleading and inaccurate. Comparably, I must drive a heavily loaded bakkie so that my underpowered hatchback feels faster. Like you say yourself, the problem is discipline and attitude. The problem isn't the type of bikes that the offenders ride, because I can and do ride my mtb in the road, even when there is a nice dirt shoulder, because I'm not risking a puncture (and yes, if someone escalates this, I'll rather deal with idiots almost clipping me than with a puncture next to a veld) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTB-More Posted June 15, 2018 Share The bold text is misleading and inaccurate. Comparably, I must drive a heavily loaded bakkie so that my underpowered hatchback feels faster. Like you say yourself, the problem is discipline and attitude. The problem isn't the type of bikes that the offenders ride, because I can and do ride my mtb in the road, even when there is a nice dirt shoulder, because I'm not risking a puncture (and yes, if someone escalates this, I'll rather deal with idiots almost clipping me than with a puncture next to a veld) I bonded for you why we have these problems... Until you get clipped... Then all the cyclist run out with their pitchforks to crucify a motorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted June 15, 2018 Share Seeing as the road is to narrow anyways lets just take all of it. That mentality is wrong. No, the mentality is appropriate as it is under certain circumstances the safest option. Proportionality is always important and the "mentality" of the motorist squeezing past a single rider with the real risk of knocking the cyclist off, is undoubtedly the greater danger. Cyclist should stop finding loopholes to justify them being in the road. Rather find a loophole to get you off the road and into safety. Cyclists need no loophole to be on the road. They are entitled to be there. Motorists are not entitled to overtake them when it is not safe to all (that includes the cyclist) to do so. Your victim blaming is a spurious argument, identical to blaming rape on women wearing "provocative clothing". The fact that you are content with only Road bikes What gives you the impression that i am "content with only road bikes" and don't also ride other kinds elsewhere ? does not justify holding up traffic and being in the road where there clearly isn't enough space There IS enough space for all road users. Just because a cyclist may be slower than (some) motorised vehicles does not a) invalidate their right to be on the road and b) entitle faster road users to overtake them when it is not safe for everyone (and that includes the cyclist) to do so. I bonded for you why we have these problems... And rape is the problem of women going drinking, or wearing provocative clothing, or being out alone. And domestic violence is the problem of women who just won't listen to their husbands. In your universe, the problem is caused by the vulnerable victim's behaviour, rather than the behaviour of the impatient, the violent, the entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagga Posted June 15, 2018 Share You are getting technical with regards to a discipline issue with cyclists riding abreast... Seeing as the road is to narrow anyways lets just take all of it. That mentality is wrong. I will say again. If you frequent roads with no shoulder then invest in a MTB. Its a lot heavier and will make you a lot stronger for race day. You can even fit a 42 Chainring at the front so you can go 60km/h on the gravel next to the road. Cyclist should stop finding loopholes to justify them being in the road. Rather find a loophole to get you off the road and into safety. The fact that you are content with only Road bikes does not justify holding up traffic and being in the road where there clearly isn't enough spaceNot a loophole but a law....you are not allowed on pavement (gravel is different story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagga Posted June 15, 2018 Share I bonded for you why we have these problems... Until you get clipped... Then all the cyclist run out with their pitchforks to crucify a motorist.Rightly so, as the motorist should obey the traffic laws and rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 15, 2018 Share Rightly so, as the motorist road users should obey the traffic laws and rules Agreed, but made slight amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkitech Posted June 15, 2018 Share I bonded for you why we have these problems... Until you get clipped... Then all the cyclist run out with their pitchforks to crucify a motorist.It's ignorant to assume I haven't been clipped before.It's incorrect and ignorant to tell me I MUST ride off the road, when I am well within my right to ride responsibly in the road.My opinion remains the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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