South Africa - The Land of Inequality

[Stretch]

We seem to be too focused on discussing everyone's CV as opposed to the topic at hand

[Patchelicious]

I thought the argument was that the middle class was supposed to give some their disposable income to the poor.

 

Now it seems that simply contributing to industry, even from afar is fine.

[shaper]

I thought the argument was that the middle class was supposed to give some their disposable income to the poor.

 

Now it seems that simply contributing to industry, even from afar is fine.

It is the argument.. however it needs be put in context of whether giving disposable income will actually do anything...some believe so, others not.

[Stretch]

It is the argument.. however it needs be put in context of whether giving disposable income will actually do anything...some believe so, others not.

My argument was not around giving.. But paying more for labour based services... Such as building, gardening, cleaning, child minding, securing, farming (I know that's gonna be a contentious one) etc etc

[Patchelicious]

My argument was not around giving.. But paying more for labour based services... Such as building, gardening, cleaning, child minding, securing, farming (I know that's gonna be a contentious one) etc etc

To be honest, we should be paying more for labour.

 

Question is how do we best achieve that. A short term solution is to set a higher minimum wage. This however has a negative medium term effect.

 

If you look at the cause of the low wages, it’s an over supply of unemployed. Reduce that supply and the value goes up.

 

How to reduce the unemployment rate is much more complicated question.

[gummibear]

To be honest, we should be paying more for labour.

 

Question is how do we best achieve that. A short term solution is to set a higher minimum wage. This however has a negative medium term effect.

 

If you look at the cause of the low wages, it’s an over supply of unemployed. Reduce that supply and the value goes up.

 

How to reduce the unemployment rate is much more complicated question.

Increasing min wage will lead to less jobs.

 

I see here how the min wage is now €2100 but builders have 1 or 2 staff on construction sites.Work that could take 2 weeks now takes 5-6 weeks.

 

Shops have it back on no of staff on the floor.

 

Pretty sure that will happen in SA to if wages are increased.

[shaper]

My argument was not around giving.. But paying more for labour based services... Such as building, gardening, cleaning, child minding, securing, farming (I know that's gonna be a contentious one) etc etc

Not a ridiculous argument at all.  On our construction sites 30% of the project cost (excluding specialist items i.e lifts, hot water plant etc.) is for labour within the community, whether they are existing SME's or individual labour.  Most have to come from the ward, else as local as possible as well as suppliers.

 

You would think the idea is good at uplifting the community and giving jobs locally rather than bringing in labour.... alas not!!

 

All SME's and labour are vetted locally through the councilor and a council liaison officer

 

For SME's work packages such as brickwork, carpentry, electrical, painting, plumbing, earthworks etc are tendered.  Competitive prices obtained and then offered to the local SME's to see if they can do the work for the preferred price.  Often accepted by local SME's else further negotiated.  Work commences and within weeks there is often issues now with the price and they want more.

 

For local labour, some projects are too big for just local, so sub-contractors may take on SME's or individual labour, there is agreed day rates fixed for all local labour, they are given training and protective gear.  I can almost guarantee within a week many will fail to pitch up for work else will complain that construction work is too hard and they want more money.

 

All of the labour have no jobs, are being employed locally and given on site training and skills.  most of the SME's are also given training with regard measuring of works, pricing and claiming to help improve management of their small businesses as part of the contract.

 

Some do uplift themselves, but the majority do not.... your argument is not contentious at all.  The issue is that no matter whether it be money, resources or opportunities given... many do not want to take the lift up offered as it means having to work for it..... which is sad to see and say!

Edited May 9, 2019 by shaper

[IceCreamMan]

To be honest, we should be paying more for labour.

 

Question is how do we best achieve that. A short term solution is to set a higher minimum wage. This however has a negative medium term effect.

 

If you look at the cause of the low wages, it’s an over supply of unemployed. Reduce that supply and the value goes up.

 

How to reduce the unemployment rate is much more complicated question.

 

This is the issue, over supply of semi or non skilled people. Supply and demand will dictate prices. Where this is artificially manipulated you encounter other issues. The butterfly effect. 

 

Since living here, I see its in everyones interest to earn enough money to have a roof over their heads, this is the fundamental of a stable society. How to do this in ZA (and Africa) with the vast masses I cant answer. 

[Mojoman]

Again with the location based assumption.

 

What if I tokd you I have an import company that buys products fron SA and sells them in Europe generating foreign income for SA? That and I support Qhubeka heavily both personally and through local Danish companies.

 

You get paid to build houses so do I win the who is a better SA citizen assumption test?

 

Also - who is the "they"? All black South Afticans?

Funny you mention Qhubeka....they gave a whole load of those bikes away to the kids here....

Don't see too many around these days.....money well spent I suppose!

[Mojoman]

To be honest, we should be paying more for labour.

 

Question is how do we best achieve that. A short term solution is to set a higher minimum wage. This however has a negative medium term effect.

 

If you look at the cause of the low wages, it’s an over supply of unemployed. Reduce that supply and the value goes up.

 

How to reduce the unemployment rate is much more complicated question.

I agree on the minimum wage....however where possible I think companies will just automate as much as possible and then compound the unemployment even more...

[Patchelicious]

I agree on the minimum wage....however where possible I think companies will just automate as much as possible and then compound the unemployment even more...

That’s my point about the medium term downside.

[BigDL]

poor education is not an issue of money.

 

2019 Budget for Basic Education - R262.4B

yes R262 400 000 000

or if we say there are 10m people paying income tax, then that's R50k per taxpayer.

 

We already spend LOADS of money on this.

While about 70% of this goes directly to salaries, we need to get better value for this money,

 

and that's where SADTU comes in.

they are quite happy with the status quo, and don't even want their members to be graded. it is basically impossible to fire a teacher.

If the only thing Cyril achieves in 5 years is breaking up SADTU's stranglehold on poor education

https://city-press.news24.com/News/break-sadtus-power-20160514

If you take public servants and low income people out of the tax base, it is closer to 800,000.

[Imploder]

https://mg.co.za/article/2019-11-19-why-sa-is-the-worlds-most-unequal-society

 

This is probably one of the greatest risks to this country's future. 

[IceCreamMan]

https://mg.co.za/article/2019-11-19-why-sa-is-the-worlds-most-unequal-society

 

This is probably one of the greatest risks to this country's future. 

 

Going to get worse imho. 

 

Blame the ANC for that. 

[Mojoman]

Going to get worse imho.

 

Blame the ANC for that.

nonsense...they have only been leading for 25 years....!

[scotty]

You can take the test

 

South Africa is one of the most unequal countries in the world. If you think about your household, how rich or poor do you think you are compared to other South Africans? SALDRU has developed this income comparison tool to help you see how income is distributed from the poorest to the richest in South Africa. In four easy clicks, you can find out where you are in South Africa’s income distribution and how you compare to the rest of the population.

 

 

https://www.saldru.uct.ac.za/income-comparison-tool/