South Africa - The Land of Inequality

[IceCreamMan]

Solutions need to be found , however radical they may be as this issue is going to get worse and worse, wanna guess which side of hte fence has the higher birth rate?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Of course I'm not saying everyone. .. But there are lots and lots of people who do who take advantage of the incompetencies of the government because the government has done nothing to enforce anything. And my point of specific to the exploitation of cheap labor as per my reply to patch above.

Then make that clear, stretch. At the moment you're using a huge fkoff brush.

[Stretch]

 

 

Nope. That day labourer is still trying to make the most of his situation, and that rate is his going rate based on the type of labour and the market he's competing in. Setting a minimum level that people need to charge above for their labour is and always has been a recipe for disaster. Fewer people get hired overall, a black market rises up and charges even less for the same thing and we're back to step one again.

.

 

 

Fewer people in the short term maybe... But eventually the price will become the norm or the standard and people will realise that's what they have to spend and either tone down their elaborate plans.. Or cough up.

 

I agree the tog labor would be difficult to maintain... But we should be moving towards a point where they don't exist instead of increasing.

[Stretch]

Then make that clear, stretch. At the moment you're using a huge fkoff brush.

Yeah I know....I know.... Typing on the phone while at work is not the easiest thing!.

 

I guess my viewpoint comes from the point of view I see now.. And I realise it's difficult to compare apples with bread.. But.. If you want to get someone in to help with some painting... You're paying the government defined minimum wage. Sure you can get some black market chap to do it for cheaper... But he's gonna do a poor job. This is where we need to be moving towards... And we never gonna get there until the government come to with some hard and workable policies

[Milkman]

The middle income always has disposable income... It's more a case of what they are prepared to sacrifice to uplift others. We selfishly hold onto our "lifestyle" at the expense of others

 

 

What do you mean by that statement ? ( maybe it came out wrong ?? )

 

Do you honestly feel that the "have's" should sacrifice their lifestyles and give their disposable income to the "have not's " ? And if they/we do that , do you think 5 or 10 years down the line the world would be a better place for all if that had to happen ? 

 

Or don't you think that maybe ALL of us would then be in the "have not " part of the street ??

 

If you took a 100 people of the street today and gave each of them R 100 000 , I am willing to make a wager with anyone willing to that at least 80 to 90 % of those people will have nothing again in 5 years time .

Educating people ( and I am not just talking about schooling ) is more important to the poor people than handouts ; but unfortunately that's not how a populist government stays in power .

 

And your statement is exactly the wrong type of educating that the government have been feeding the poor masses for years .

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Revise that figure down to 6 months and I'll agree with you, milkman

[Stretch]

What do you mean by that statement ? ( maybe it came out wrong ?? )

 

Do you honestly feel that the "have's" should sacrifice their lifestyles and give their disposable income to the "have not's " ? And if they/we do that , do you think 5 or 10 years down the line the world would be a better place for all if that had to happen ?

 

Or don't you think that maybe ALL of us would then be in the "have not " part of the street ??

 

If you took a 100 people of the street today and gave each of them R 100 000 , I am willing to make a wager with anyone willing to that at least 80 to 90 % of those people will have nothing again in 5 years time .

Educating people ( and I am not just talking about schooling ) is more important to the poor people than handouts ; but unfortunately that's not how a populist government stays in power .

 

And your statement is exactly the wrong type of educating that the government have been feeding the poor masses for years .

Sorry.. See above..I was particularly focusing on what we are prepared to pay for labour and services because the government is not doing their job in formulating policies to prevent the exploitation of our work force

 

Edit.. Edited my original post

Edited May 7, 2019 by Stretch

[Eldron]

Here's a thought. If each middle class family had paid for the education of 1 poor child from 1994 until now do you think the country would be any different?

 

Government failure has a devastating double whammy effect on the poor. It keeps them poor AND reduces the ability and will of the middle/top to help the poor.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Eldron

[Chris_]

Here's a thought. If each middle class family had paid for the education of 1 poor child from 1994 until now do you think the country would be any different?

 

Government failure has a devastating double whammy effect on the poor. It keeps them poor AND reduces the ability and will of the middle/top to help the poor.

 

I've always liked the idea of a household paying for their maids (apols non-PC) childrens schooling. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Here's a thought. If each middle class family had paid for the education of 1 poor child from 1994 until now do you think the country would be any different?

 

Government failure has a devastating double whammy effect on the poor. It keeps them poor AND reduces the ability and will of the middle/top to help the poor.

I think it would have, but not so much. Those schools would still be in dire need of attention, staffed by people who largely dgaf. Let's assume a 25% hit rate and 2 cycles per family due to 1994 being 24 yrs ago (2x12y school cycles)

 

What is the middle income distribution in 2006 (halfway) and what would the 25% figure bear out ?

[Stretch]

I think it would have, but not so much. Those schools would still be in dire need of attention, staffed by people who largely dgaf. Let's assume a 25% hit rate and 2 cycles per family due to 1994 being 24 yrs ago (2x12y school cycles)

 

What is the middle income distribution in 2006 (halfway) and what would the 25% figure bear out ?

Problem is not the actual education. That's free for a rural school. So is the lunch they get. What really matters is the conditions that these kids have to study in. Long distances to get to school. Atrocious conditions to study in at home. And then as you say teachers and principles who just don't care.

 

There's not enough schools... The kids have to walk miles to get to them. Govt has failed here miserably. Right from the beginning. This is not a Zuma shortfall.. It's an ANC shortfall

[Patchelicious]

I've always liked the idea of a household paying for their maids (apols non-PC) childrens schooling.

Many do. My folks did, my other set of parents still do. I do. Come to think of it I am actually paying, directly , post tax income for 3 children’s schooling (not mine).

 

Most others would argue that they pay their taxes which should have been used correctly. I said it on this or another thread, that if or taxes were used correctly on education from 94, the education problem would be much smaller today.

[Stretch]

Many do. My folks did, my other set of parents still do. I do. Come to think of it I am actually paying, directly , post tax income for 3 children’s schooling (not mine).

 

Most others would argue that they pay their taxes which should have been used correctly. I said it on this or another thread, that if or taxes were used correctly on education from 94, the education problem would be much smaller today.

Instead we bought boats and planes with big guns

[IceCreamMan]

Here's a thought. If each middle class family had paid for the education of 1 poor child from 1994 until now do you think the country would be any different?

 

Government failure has a devastating double whammy effect on the poor. It keeps them poor AND reduces the ability and will of the middle/top to help the poor.

 

Here's a thought, every middle class family has been doing that just not for one but many. 

 

  Now you propose that it gets done again. 

 

Just increase taxes shall we? 

 

And we type this from locales other than ZA. Wonder why

 

Edit: And still the ANC will blame the apartheid government, you know why, cos its expedient to do so, it deflects blame and it allows them to play the race card. Don't fall for that BS. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by IceCreamMan

[IceCreamMan]

Instead we bought boats and planes with big guns

 

Those boats are ******, planes U/S, guns up in smoke. Sposed to build a condom factory too I heard so that we get ****** without the risk of diseases. 

[shaper]

Revise that figure down to 6 months and I'll agree with you, milkman

I see many with rose tinted glasses here!!

 

As to your 6 months, you should revise that to 6 days!!!

 

When I worked in Zim many years ago, we went through a round of retrenching, now this is back in the early 90's and as most know, a lot of the Zim's have a higher level of education than the ones on the right.

 

As part of the retrenching a highly educated engineer who had been with the company almost 30 years was retrenched, he was sat down, discussed his package and given not only 1 month for every year worked but substantially more for the dedication and service.  It was enough to survive on for 2 years or more whilst he looked for a new job, even longer perhaps if he was careful with the money.  It was on a Friday.

 

Surprisingly come the Monday morning he was back at the gates to work asking for his job back.  After inquiring if he really understood that he had been retrenched and that all the money was to set him up going forward, he advised that he had spent it all !!!  Most of it went on beer at the shabeen, local hookers and probably new found friends who squandered it for him.  

 

So hence why he was at the gate asking for his job back as he had no money.... and this was an educated Zimbabwean.

 

So therein lies the crux of the difference between those on the left and those on the right.  No matter how much money, education etc you throw at the ones on the right it will just be squandered.  Those on the left, will save and will want to keep their disposable income.... and why do they need to give it to those on the right who will continue to squander it..... no matter how much of a helping hand you try to give them!!

 

I see the comments and arguments here... but in reality you are trying to apply western logic to an african problem that has been going on for centuries and will continue to do so.