Hunting - yes or no?

[Mousea]

If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.

It is to little to late,.

Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.

Culling

[Piston ZA]

If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.

It is to little to late,.

Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.

Culling

Get better park management?

 

Then there is relocation. Not ideal but still better than culling

[Chris_]

Went to a talk by an ex Ranger from Thembe Elephant park.

The Elephant population has Exploded and is now in the 200"s where as the park can only maintain about 120.

Culling is not allowed due to Cites and other red tape.

The sand forests and other mammals are suffering as a result.

The Suni which were once abundant in the forests are now hard to find.

 

Hunting HAS to be allowed to maintain the Elephant population.

Allowing other Mammals to survive

 

Do you mean just Thembe or everywhere?

 

Which parks have maintained status quo without culling or intervening with elephant population?

[Odinson]

If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.

It is to little to late,.

Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.

Culling

 

Temper your enthusiasm, boet. 

[Odinson]

Quite correct. And in order to allow that particular migration to happen again naturally, they will have to cull the human population of a significant part of Northern KZN, most of Swaziland and Mozambique, including all of Maputo. And when the ellies get to Kruger, they are going to find too many of their brothers there as well, with vegetation destroyed and habitat damaged. So they'll have to find a better place to migrate to. The Okavango, easy! Wipe the whole of Gauteng and the Northern half of SA, out of the way people! But really, what they need is to connect with the Zambesi bunch! Club them Zim humans as well! Cool! better get going!  

 

Sounds like a plan. 

 

Now, where's a mad scientist waiting to release a super-virus when you need one? 

[Mousea]

Do you mean just Thembe or everywhere?

 

Which parks have maintained status quo without culling or intervening with elephant population?

I wont get into the other parks.

but Thembe has the Sand Forests and these are disappearing due to the huge impact the over population has.

Sad but something has to be done.

Man saved the Elephant there, but have created a monster in going so

[SwissVan]

If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.

It is to little to late,.

Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.

Culling

Yeah, let’s start with the unemployed and families with more than 2 kids

 

Ah *** I forgot, THATS DIFFERENT

[HDW]

Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport?

[SwissVan]

Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport?

Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend

[Chris_]

Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport?

 

(I'm not sure who you're asking but I'll have a go anyway.) I've always thought of hunting as killing specifically for sustenance/survival. I suppose I've never really thought about the ease of such activity though. 

 

A head/trophy for your wall is not this. Neither is selling tooth or tusk. Fur depends again on the purpose. The rest falls under killing.

[Chris_]

Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend

 

Eternal short-straws unite!

[SwissVan]

Eternal short-straws unite!

When the cats away....

Edited February 25, 2019 by SwissVan

[HDW]

Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend

 

I tried my best.

[HDW]

(I'm not sure who you're asking but I'll have a go anyway.) I've always thought of hunting as killing specifically for sustenance/survival. I suppose I've never really thought about the ease of such activity though. 

 

A head/trophy for your wall is not this. Neither is selling tooth or tusk. Fur depends again on the purpose. The rest falls under killing.

 

I agree with what you said, and honestly also haven't really thought about the "ease of killing" before. It's just weird that you get these men, with weapons who can kill something long before that something even know anything is around, standing on the back of a vehicle, driving around fenced off pieces of land, and then brag about what they shot, where they shot it, etc. 

 

I get it's a sport to some, but it's weird.

[leeubok]

If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.

It is to little to late,.

Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.

Culling

 

 

Get better park management?

 

Then there is relocation. Not ideal but still better than culling

 

Tembe put their elephant on contraception in 2008/9. It has brought the population growth down by a lot, but it doesn't deal with the already over population. Now, as Mousea already pointed out, Tembe has 3 main conservation objectives: Protect the sand forest, protect the suni and protect the elephant. The difficulty is that elephant cause a lot of damage to the other 2 objectives. But the Tembe elephants are special, they are 1 of only 2 elephant populations that were not introduced, they always occurred there. Ok maybe 3, I'm not too sure about Addo. Go to any other reserve in this county with elephant, and they'll tell you when and from where the ellies were introduced. 

 

Hunting in this instance wouldn't solve the over population issue, because you can only hunt adult bulls. Culling would solve it, but according to NN&S they have to exhaust all the other options first, i.e. range expansion, contraception, relocation etc.. I think the only plausible option left is live relocation. Instead of every game reserve in the country buying their ellies from Kruger, they should get from Tembe! 

[Piston ZA]

Tembe put their elephant on contraception in 2008/9. It has brought the population growth down by a lot, but it doesn't deal with the already over population. Now, as Mousea already pointed out, Tembe has 3 main conservation objectives: Protect the sand forest, protect the suni and protect the elephant. The difficulty is that elephant cause a lot of damage to the other 2 objectives. But the Tembe elephants are special, they are 1 of only 2 elephant populations that were not introduced, they always occurred there. Ok maybe 3, I'm not too sure about Addo. Go to any other reserve in this county with elephant, and they'll tell you when and from where the ellies were introduced. 

 

Hunting in this instance wouldn't solve the over population issue, because you can only hunt adult bulls. Culling would solve it, but according to NN&S they have to exhaust all the other options first, i.e. range expansion, contraception, relocation etc.. I think the only plausible option left is live relocation. Instead of every game reserve in the country buying their ellies from Kruger, they should get from Tembe! 

Agree, relocation is the only other viable option. The problem with relocation is:

- cost

- is there a reserve, park etc. wiling to buy/accept them (the whole family unit/s)

- it creates a lot of stress on the animals. Moving whole family units as one does help in this regard as far as I'm aware, but it is still stressful

 

But like I said before, still preferable to culling to me.

 

Unfortunately there are no easy answers (P.S. I take back my comment regarding getting better management. It was meant as a joke but it is uncalled for).

 

I have worked in reserves in South Africa and Botswana, so I know how difficult conservation management can be. Botswana is also now considering culling again due to the size and growth of the elephant population.