Odinson Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Quite correct. And in order to allow that particular migration to happen again naturally, they will have to cull the human population of a significant part of Northern KZN, most of Swaziland and Mozambique, including all of Maputo. And when the ellies get to Kruger, they are going to find too many of their brothers there as well, with vegetation destroyed and habitat damaged. So they'll have to find a better place to migrate to. The Okavango, easy! Wipe the whole of Gauteng and the Northern half of SA, out of the way people! But really, what they need is to connect with the Zambesi bunch! Club them Zim humans as well! Cool! better get going! Sounds like a plan. Now, where's a mad scientist waiting to release a super-virus when you need one?
Mousea Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Do you mean just Thembe or everywhere? Which parks have maintained status quo without culling or intervening with elephant population?I wont get into the other parks.but Thembe has the Sand Forests and these are disappearing due to the huge impact the over population has.Sad but something has to be done.Man saved the Elephant there, but have created a monster in going so
SwissVan Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.It is to little to late,.Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.CullingYeah, let’s start with the unemployed and families with more than 2 kids Ah *** I forgot, THATS DIFFERENT
HDW Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport?
SwissVan Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport?Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend
Chris_ Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Would you say standing on the back of a bakkie and shooting antelope in a fenced area is hunting? Just trying to establish the boundaries here as I'm not sure what is hunting, what is playing, and what is a sport? (I'm not sure who you're asking but I'll have a go anyway.) I've always thought of hunting as killing specifically for sustenance/survival. I suppose I've never really thought about the ease of such activity though. A head/trophy for your wall is not this. Neither is selling tooth or tusk. Fur depends again on the purpose. The rest falls under killing.
Chris_ Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend Eternal short-straws unite!
SwissVan Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 Eternal short-straws unite!When the cats away....
HDW Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 Friday PM, everyone is to busy shutting down for the weekend I tried my best.
HDW Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 (I'm not sure who you're asking but I'll have a go anyway.) I've always thought of hunting as killing specifically for sustenance/survival. I suppose I've never really thought about the ease of such activity though. A head/trophy for your wall is not this. Neither is selling tooth or tusk. Fur depends again on the purpose. The rest falls under killing. I agree with what you said, and honestly also haven't really thought about the "ease of killing" before. It's just weird that you get these men, with weapons who can kill something long before that something even know anything is around, standing on the back of a vehicle, driving around fenced off pieces of land, and then brag about what they shot, where they shot it, etc. I get it's a sport to some, but it's weird.
leeubok Posted February 27, 2019 Author Posted February 27, 2019 If the Population is already to big and the park cant maintain with the number of Elephant already there contraception wont help.It is to little to late,.Something NEEDS to be done about the over population.Culling Get better park management? Then there is relocation. Not ideal but still better than culling Tembe put their elephant on contraception in 2008/9. It has brought the population growth down by a lot, but it doesn't deal with the already over population. Now, as Mousea already pointed out, Tembe has 3 main conservation objectives: Protect the sand forest, protect the suni and protect the elephant. The difficulty is that elephant cause a lot of damage to the other 2 objectives. But the Tembe elephants are special, they are 1 of only 2 elephant populations that were not introduced, they always occurred there. Ok maybe 3, I'm not too sure about Addo. Go to any other reserve in this county with elephant, and they'll tell you when and from where the ellies were introduced. Hunting in this instance wouldn't solve the over population issue, because you can only hunt adult bulls. Culling would solve it, but according to NN&S they have to exhaust all the other options first, i.e. range expansion, contraception, relocation etc.. I think the only plausible option left is live relocation. Instead of every game reserve in the country buying their ellies from Kruger, they should get from Tembe!
Piston ZA Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Tembe put their elephant on contraception in 2008/9. It has brought the population growth down by a lot, but it doesn't deal with the already over population. Now, as Mousea already pointed out, Tembe has 3 main conservation objectives: Protect the sand forest, protect the suni and protect the elephant. The difficulty is that elephant cause a lot of damage to the other 2 objectives. But the Tembe elephants are special, they are 1 of only 2 elephant populations that were not introduced, they always occurred there. Ok maybe 3, I'm not too sure about Addo. Go to any other reserve in this county with elephant, and they'll tell you when and from where the ellies were introduced. Hunting in this instance wouldn't solve the over population issue, because you can only hunt adult bulls. Culling would solve it, but according to NN&S they have to exhaust all the other options first, i.e. range expansion, contraception, relocation etc.. I think the only plausible option left is live relocation. Instead of every game reserve in the country buying their ellies from Kruger, they should get from Tembe! Agree, relocation is the only other viable option. The problem with relocation is:- cost- is there a reserve, park etc. wiling to buy/accept them (the whole family unit/s)- it creates a lot of stress on the animals. Moving whole family units as one does help in this regard as far as I'm aware, but it is still stressful But like I said before, still preferable to culling to me. Unfortunately there are no easy answers (P.S. I take back my comment regarding getting better management. It was meant as a joke but it is uncalled for). I have worked in reserves in South Africa and Botswana, so I know how difficult conservation management can be. Botswana is also now considering culling again due to the size and growth of the elephant population.
Long Wheel Base Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Sounds like a plan. Now, where's a mad scientist waiting to release a super-virus when you need one? Have you watched last ship?
Chris_ Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 This is a silly thought, but.. I wonder how many ellies there were roaming our lands say 10,000 years ago, before humans really kicked off. The way these guys seem to multiply and dominate makes me wonder if they were of impala-esque quantity back in the day. Or I suppose there were equally many many more predators - thats probably more likely...
Warthog Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Agree, relocation is the only other viable option. The problem with relocation is:- cost- is there a reserve, park etc. wiling to buy/accept them (the whole family unit/s)- it creates a lot of stress on the animals. Moving whole family units as one does help in this regard as far as I'm aware, but it is still stressful But like I said before, still preferable to culling to me. Unfortunately there are no easy answers (P.S. I take back my comment regarding getting better management. It was meant as a joke but it is uncalled for). I have worked in reserves in South Africa and Botswana, so I know how difficult conservation management can be. Botswana is also now considering culling again due to the size and growth of the elephant population. We were in Bots few years back. South Gate, Moremi, Kwai etc. We literally saw hundreds and hundreds of elephant, but eish, they can really mess up a place... Remember one specific time, ifirc it was just before Kwai, where we drove for kilo's and kilo's through just nothing. It was like a space landscape, with no vegetation at all apart from dead tree stumps....
Piston ZA Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 We were in Bots few years back. South Gate, Moremi, Kwai etc. We literally saw hundreds and hundreds of elephant, but eish, they can really mess up a place... Remember one specific time, ifirc it was just before Kwai, where we drove for kilo's and kilo's through just nothing. It was like a space landscape, with no vegetation at all apart from dead tree stumps....It is an issue, but once again there are alternatives to culling. This came up on my FB this morning, a proposal for green belts/conservation corridors that could re-establish traditional migratory routes (not just for elephants, but other ungulates too). I'm not sure where this proposal comes from exactly, but these are the alternatives that should be considered before culling.
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