The Veganism Thread

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

No. If it was presented as black and white one vs another - perhaps, but this has never been his primary focus.

That I agree with, in terms of primary focus, but it has been continual, on a number of threads. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Patchelicious]

No. If it was presented as black and white one vs another - perhaps, but this has never been his primary focus.

Absolutely, and I have always said that if we stuck to the morality aspect, the argument is very strong.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Absolutely, and I have always said that if we stuck to the morality aspect, the argument is very strong.

100%

 

I may not agree with it, but that doesn't mean I don't accept it or that he's wrong to have it. 

[MTBeer]

Can you imagine being at a party and being cornered by a vegan christian that does crossfit

the unholy trinity...?

[Odinson]

It may not be the same thing, but a plant-based diet is PART of veganism. You've continually gone on about the health benefits of a plant-based diet. Those claims may not be as true as you've been led to believe, and now you're back-tracking...

I’m not back tracking. I want to have consistency on WHAT we’re discussing.

[Odinson]

I understand this.

 

Again, the post was about a study that offers an alternate view point on the many posts about the health implications of eating red meat.

 

Do you want to discuss the merits of that study or should we dismiss it because it can’t reconcile with the morality aspect?

I’m happy to discuss the study. However, whether red and processed meat is carcinogenic does not relate to veganism.

[IceCreamMan]

I’m not back tracking. I want to have consistency on WHAT we’re discussing.

 

You should join my moving company, I make you CEO.

 

( this is in jest you understand)

[Odinson]

You should join my moving company, I make you CEO.

 

( this is in jest you understand)

You be CEO and I’ll do the heavy lifting as COO.

[Shebeen]

 

"It's kind of like saying: 'We know helmets can save lives, but some people still prefer the feeling of the wind in their hair when they ride bikes. And let's face it, most people won't crash,'" she said.

"But everyone agrees you should wear a helmet."

 

Is this a joke?!

 

and then you can find research that says wearing helmet will increase your risk of being in a crash!

[Odinson]

Myles. Not too long ago we had a vigorous back-and-forth regarding nutritional research, study design, bias, etc. I hope that you apply that same circumspection (my word of the day) you advocated for to this study.

[Patchelicious]

Veganism.

 

So, let’s start off with what that actually means. There’s no universal definition, but the one provided by The Vegan Society offers a good perspective:

 

“A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”

 

The next question would be as to why someone should adopt this lifestyle and truthfully, there is no universal answer to that. It’s for every person to decide for themselves why they want to follow this path. However, the motivations can be broadly grouped into the following three categories:

 

1. Ethics:

Many people are of the opinion that there is no moral justification for us to exploit and kill animals if there is no extenuating circumstances or reasons for us to do so. If we can both live and thrive off of a plant-based diet, what moral justification is there then for us to harm animals?

 

2. Environmental concerns:

An overwhelming balance of evidence supports the conclusion that animal agriculture is one of the main drivers of climate change and environmental destruction and/or degradation.

 

3. Health:

There is an overwhelming body of good evidence that a whole food plant-rich diet or plant-based diet is both health promoting and preventative in regards to disease, especially many of the main killers, such as heart disease, stroke and certain types of cancer.

 

Those are just some of the reasons that people may choose to adopt this lifestyle. Personally, I transitioned initially based on environmental concerns. Concern for the animals and my health came much later.

 

Now, does veganism require you to become a ‘YouTube activist’, chain yourself to trees in a rainforest, save pigs from a slaughterhouse or only wear tie-dye shirts? Absolutely not. You can be fully disinterested in any type of activism or direct action, but at least decide to not support people and industries that exploit animals and contribute to environmental destruction. It’s that simple.

 

I’ll dive into the different topics in detail as I have the time. If anyone would be interested, I’d also share some personal anecdotes, but that’s only n=1, so take it as such.

 

Here are some interesting videos for those who have some time:

 

https://youtu.be/Z3u7hXpOm58

 

https://youtu.be/YnQb58BoBQw

 

I welcome debate and contrarian views. I’m not fazed by trolling, but it does detract from the discussion. If it’ll make you feel better, throw out a barb, but know that I’ve heard and seen it all before.

I wasn’t trying to derail this thread into a discussion, that isn’t about veganism.

 

We have been talking about the 3 main areas since you started this thread.

[Odinson]

Wow. It’s almost been a year.

 

I know, Patch. If I could go back and rewrite post #1 I’d maybe formulate it a bit different, but it was a bit of a catch-all. The reasoning was also that I personally approached a plant-based diet from an environmental perspective. Understanding veganism and adopting that moral position came later.

 

A plant-based diet intersects with health and the environment, but ultimately veganism isn’t about that. I think what has also muddied the waters is that we’ve really only discussed diet and neglected to really drill down into other ways we exploit animals.

[Patchelicious]

Wow. It’s almost been a year.

 

I know, Patch. If I could go back and rewrite post #1 I’d maybe formulate it a bit different, but it was a bit of a catch-all. The reasoning was also that I personally approached a plant-based diet from an environmental perspective. Understanding veganism and adopting that moral position came later.

 

A plant-based diet intersects with health and the environment, but ultimately veganism isn’t about that. I think what has also muddied the waters is that we’ve really only discussed diet and neglected to really drill down into other ways we exploit animals.

Cool, have no problem keeping this thread about the morality.

 

I advised that a few times

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Myles. Not too long ago we had a vigorous back-and-forth regarding nutritional research, study design, bias, etc. I hope that you apply that same circumspection (my word of the day) you advocated for to this study.

Odi, this is exactly why I said those things. This backs up those other studies I was talking about, but it's still a case of everybody's body is different and what works for you may not work for me. 

 

In this case, circumspection should be applied by you, to those studies you routinely pulled up to back your viewpoint. In nutrition science, it's not all that clear. I was already (and remain) circumspect about it all. You, however, dismissed them out of hand. 

 

Just own it, man. It's okay to admit that you may not have been as right as you thought you were, regarding this particular aspect of a plant-based (vegan) diet. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Wow. It’s almost been a year.

 

I know, Patch. If I could go back and rewrite post #1 I’d maybe formulate it a bit different, but it was a bit of a catch-all. The reasoning was also that I personally approached a plant-based diet from an environmental perspective. Understanding veganism and adopting that moral position came later.

 

A plant-based diet intersects with health and the environment, but ultimately veganism isn’t about that. I think what has also muddied the waters is that we’ve really only discussed diet and neglected to really drill down into other ways we exploit animals.

Rad, that's cool. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Odinson]

In other news, thousands upon thousands of sheep are now being loaded onto that Middle Eastern death trap docked in PE. $ wins out again.