The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. The problem with a vegan diet is that it is advocated and adopted from a moral and ethical perspective.

 

Why do you see it as a "problem"? 

[Eldron]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. The problem with a vegan diet is that it is advocated and adopted from a moral and ethical perspective.

Agreed. That is why I'm not a vegan...or a #meatheals fan or a Keto/Paleo guy or a fruitarian or any other fad/loopy diet fan.

 

A "balanced" diet is fairly cheap and easy to prepare and consume. Why do people make it so complicated?

[Edition 507]

....... I think it's important that we're all on the same page that veganism is a set of principles/ethical position which seeks to reduce as far as practicable animal cruelty and exploitation. Obviously diet is an element of that. The carnivore diet is exactly that - a diet. To my knowledge, it is not an ethical position or a moral philosophy. 

 

Thus, when people like to pit vegan vs carnivore, that is fundamentally incorrect. The discussion should be a plant-based diet compared to this carnivore diet. 

 

So glad that you concede veganism is a completely unnatural and is really only a personal ideology.

 

Essentially plants don't like being eaten just as much as animals don't like being eaten, but unfortunately plants are at the bottom of the food chain while humans are essentially at the top of the food chain. Funnily enough, at the top of the food chain are your predators and meat eaters. Oh wait, there is nothing funny about this, humans are actually predators and meat eaters. We are not herbivores, we are supposed to eat meat, in fact plants are a largely toxic and a completely inadequate food source for humans.

 

So, as a natural meat eater you may feel you stand on a higher ground morally and ethically by being a vegan and that is your choice, I have nothing against it, every person has their own personal level of morality, but what I can say is that veganism has absolutely zero health benefits and is actually a very unhealthy, nutrient deficient and largely poor diet.

 

I kinda also feel that veganism is pretty much like a religion/cult where the ‘converts’ to veganism fall into this ethical belief system, where they are morally and ethically ‘right’  and everyone else is therefore ‘wrong’ and need to be enlightened on our evil and immoral ways.

 

Have you ever noticed that when you meet a vegan, what’s the first thing they tell you? “I’m a vegan”. It's not a dietary statement, it is a moral statement.

 

There is nothing healthy about veganism like there is nothing healthy about the Kenneth Copeland or the Ku Klux Klan.

[Edition 507]

Why do you see it as a "problem"? 

It is unnatural.

[Odinson]

So glad that you concede veganism is a completely unnatural and is really only a personal ideology.

 

Essentially plants don't like being eaten just as much as animals don't like being eaten, but unfortunately plants are at the bottom of the food chain while humans are essentially at the top of the food chain. Funnily enough, at the top of the food chain are your predators and meat eaters. Oh wait, there is nothing funny about this, humans are actually predators and meat eaters. We are not herbivores, we are supposed to eat meat, in fact plants are a largely toxic and a completely inadequate food source for humans.

 

So, as a natural meat eater you may feel you stand on a higher ground morally and ethically by being a vegan and that is your choice, I have nothing against it, every person has their own personal level of morality, but what I can say is that veganism has absolutely zero health benefits and is actually a very unhealthy, nutrient deficient and largely poor diet.

 

I kinda also feel that veganism is pretty much like a religion/cult where the ‘converts’ to veganism fall into this ethical belief system, where they are morally and ethically ‘right’  and everyone else is therefore ‘wrong’ and need to be enlightened on our evil and immoral ways.

 

Have you ever noticed that when you meet a vegan, what’s the first thing they tell you? “I’m a vegan”. It's not a dietary statement, it is a moral statement.

 

There is nothing healthy about veganism like there is nothing healthy about the Kenneth Copeland or the Ku Klux Klan.

 

Wow. I'm legitimately not sure whether you're trolling or not. If you aren't, well then, I just can't even. 

[Eldron]

It is unnatural.

Using "it isn't natural" as a defence against anything is ridiculous. Nothing we do is natural any more.

 

The last natural people to live had a life expectancy in the low 30s.

 

We're doing much better as a species now that we're really far from natural.

[Chris_]

So glad that you concede veganism is a completely unnatural and is really only a personal ideology.

 

Essentially plants don't like being eaten just as much as animals don't like being eaten, but unfortunately plants are at the bottom of the food chain while humans are essentially at the top of the food chain. Funnily enough, at the top of the food chain are your predators and meat eaters. Oh wait, there is nothing funny about this, humans are actually predators and meat eaters. We are not herbivores, we are supposed to eat meat, in fact plants are a largely toxic and a completely inadequate food source for humans.

 

So, as a natural meat eater you may feel you stand on a higher ground morally and ethically by being a vegan and that is your choice, I have nothing against it, every person has their own personal level of morality, but what I can say is that veganism has absolutely zero health benefits and is actually a very unhealthy, nutrient deficient and largely poor diet.

 

I kinda also feel that veganism is pretty much like a religion/cult where the ‘converts’ to veganism fall into this ethical belief system, where they are morally and ethically ‘right’  and everyone else is therefore ‘wrong’ and need to be enlightened on our evil and immoral ways.

 

Have you ever noticed that when you meet a vegan, what’s the first thing they tell you? “I’m a vegan”. It's not a dietary statement, it is a moral statement.

 

There is nothing healthy about veganism like there is nothing healthy about the Kenneth Copeland or the Ku Klux Klan.

 

You must feel great getting that off your chest if you have endured 60 pages of this thread! 

[GrahamS2]

From an evolutionary perspective the answer is simple - humans would be extinct were it not for eating meat. Heck, even a 100 years ago a plant based diet would have resulted in B12 deficiency and probably death. There were no supplements back then.

Edited January 30, 2019 by GrahamS2

[Patchelicious]

Using "it isn't natural" as a defence against anything is ridiculous. Nothing we do is natural any more.

 

The last natural people to live had a life expectancy in the low 30s.

 

We're doing much better as a species now that we're really far from natural.

How I saw his comment...

 

The topic was that we were talking about was going vegan as a health benefit. It was then said that that’s the problem with veganism, it is an ethical choice not necessarily the best health choice. Choosing to not eat meat based on ethical choices is a cognitive choice, not a natural one.

 

I’m not saying I agree with it all, but I’m not simply going to put it down to trolling or being ridiculous.

 

Maybe I’m giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Patchelicious

[Thor Buttox]

How I saw his comment...

 

The topic was that we were talking about was going vegan as a health benefit. It was then said that that’s the problem with veganism, it is an ethical choice not necessarily the best health choice. Choosing to eat not eat meat based on ethical choices is a cognitive choice, not a natural one.

 

I’m not saying I agree with it all, but I’m not simply going to put it down to trolling or being ridiculous.

 

Maybe I’m giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Wiping your butt with toilet paper is not natural. Wiping it with three-ply, luxury soft is more unnatural than re-processed one ply. Until we came down from the trees, taking your hand and flinging it about was probably a sign of common understanding, as our chimpy friends still do.

 

Question is, in order to save the forests and make an ethical choice, are you prepared to go back to the hand, or is our recent understanding of germ theory going to presuppose a nick in the skin that could cause a real problem in some people who don't have that knowledge but who are told that 'The hand is best'.

 

Because if saving the planet is your moral choice, it probably is. Maybe use leaves? Unless you Fi d it's poison ivy? What is best?

 

Yes it's a stupid analogy, but made for serious effect. 'it' s not natutal' is as unhelpful as 'it' s the only solution'.

[Chris_]

From an evolutionary perspective the answer is simple - humans would be extinct were it not for eating meat. Heck, even a 100 years ago a plant based diet would have resulted in B12 deficiency and probably death. There were no supplements back then.

 

The standard vegan reply to this question actually makes sense to me.

 

Vit B12 comes from bacteria, (the best source is actually feces...) Those many years ago when humans were picking fruit off the ground, pulling vegetables out the ground, bulbs whatever out and off the ground, the earth back then had a very rich and bacteria-ful surface. With (poorly) washed foods one would be able to eat enough B12 from the bits and bobs within the soil.

 

Today though our food is excessively washed and polished, together with increasingly infertile and overtilled farms in our mass producing system, you can see where the balance has been lost.

[Barend de Arend]

From an evolutionary perspective the answer is simple - humans would be extinct were it not for eating meat. Heck, even a 100 years ago a plant based diet would have resulted in B12 deficiency and probably death. There were no supplements back then.

 

Jainism?  Buddhism?  There were vegetarians 2500 years ago.

[Patchelicious]

The standard vegan reply to this question actually makes sense to me.

 

Vit B12 comes from bacteria, (the best source is actually feces...) Those many years ago when humans were picking fruit off the ground, pulling vegetables out the ground, bulbs whatever out and off the ground, the earth back then had a very rich and bacteria-ful surface. With (poorly) washed foods one would be able to eat enough B12 from the bits and bobs within the soil.

 

Today though our food is excessively washed and polished, together with increasingly infertile and overtilled farms in our mass producing system, you can see where the balance has been lost.

So it was bacteria that allowed all those vegans to survive in their caves?

[Patchelicious]

Jainism? Buddhism? There were vegetarians 2500 years ago.

Cognitive choices?

[_David_]

I don't care much for fad diets but I think that all of us vegans and meat eaters should agree that the hell on earth that is factory farming should stop.

[Mudsimus]

I don't care much for fad diets but I think that all of us vegans and meat eaters should agree that the hell on earth that is factory farming should stop.

What is a viable alternative?