The Abortion Issue

[Odinson]

Have at it!

[mon-goose]

oh boy. I see this thread going nowhere, lots of irritated people trying to fight for their own opinions and no one solving anything.

 

I'm against abortion but won't be following this thread

[Robbie Stewart]

So, to keep this discussion going, and not peeve off a bunch of folks in the General Election 2019 thread, this thread to have a civil discussion about a very sensitive topic.

Some basic rules:

 

Let's try keep things civil. I accede this is an emotive topic, so let's at least try.
Let's play the ball, and not the man.

Let's not let this thread degenerate into name-calling etc.

 

Now that that's cleared up, you all by now know I am against it, and will not support any person, institute or political party that approves of it.

My main reason, other than it being a conscience vote on my part, is that after 14 years of trying everything under the sun, I have a nearly 10 month old baby girl who is the center of my universe. 

At 22/23 weeks, our Ob/Gyn told us she was not viable, and we would do well to consider termination.

She is perfect in every sense of the word, with ZERO defects. If I listened to my wife's doctor...I don't even want to think about it.

[Stretch]

oh boy. I see this thread going nowhere, lots of irritated people trying to fight for their own opinions and no one solving anything.

 

I'm against abortion but won't be following this thread

 

i think this thread could be handled with civil conversation. In fact it is not really about abortion but more about the legislation around abortion. This is what really annoys me about the pro life view - an opinion on abortion is actually a secondary factor in the debate around the legality of abortion in a country. The primary factor is around choice. There are many people who are against abortion but will still vote for the legalisation of abortion because it is a personal choice and not a choice that should be made by a government

[mon-goose]

As per the other thread of the same nature. I'm still not sure what you want to achieve with this thread. I maintain that all it'll do is get people irritated and angry with each other and achieve very little. But that's my view.

[gummibear]

There is no debate about abortion unless it's for a rape victim or the health of the mother or baby.

 

Abortion is not a birth control method

[Odinson]

So, to keep this discussion going, and not peeve off a bunch of folks in the General Election 2019 thread, this thread to have a civil discussion about a very sensitive topic.

 

Some basic rules:

 

Let's try keep things civil. I accede this is an emotive topic, so let's at least try.

Let's play the ball, and not the man.

Let's not let this thread degenerate into name-calling etc.

 

Now that that's cleared up, you all by now know I am against it, and will not support any person, institute or political party that approves of it.

 

My main reason, other than it being a conscience vote on my part, is that after 14 years of trying everything under the sun, I have a nearly 10 month old baby girl who is the center of my universe. 

 

At 22/23 weeks, our Ob/Gyn told us she was not viable, and we would do well to consider termination.

 

She is perfect in every sense of the word, with ZERO defects. If I listened to my wife's doctor...I don't even want to think about it.

 

How do you relate your experience to that of woman who wishes to exercise the right to terminate a pregnancy? Where's the link?  

 

What would your view have been if your child was in fact 'not viable' or would have been born with a terrible defect, yet you were not legally allowed to exercise a choice as to termination? 

[Allrounder]

Okay so clearly is missed something with two similar freds jumping up at the same time. 

 

But I am with Robbie on this one. 

 

If there is no death penalty for the scum of the earth in prison , why must an innocent child be killed/murdered because his mother does not want him/her. 

[The Guy in Pink]

• Do we need  two flippin threads

[Stretch]

How do you relate your experience to that of woman who wishes to exercise the right to terminate a pregnancy? Where's the link?  

 

What would your view have been if your child was in fact 'not viable' or would have been born with a terrible defect, yet you were not legally allowed to exercise a choice as to termination? 

 

moving to other thread

[Robbie Stewart]

In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the US. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.

 

Percentage

Reason

<0.5%

Victim of rape

3%

Fetal health problems

4%

Physical health problems

4%

Would interfere with education or career

7%

Not mature enough to raise a child

8%

Don't want to be a single mother

19%

Done having children

23%

Can't afford a baby

25%

Not ready for a child

6%

Other

 

The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.

 

Percentage

Reason

.001%

The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship

.065%

The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy

.085%

The woman was raped

.288%

The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy

.294%

The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy

.666%

There was a serious fetal abnormality

6.268%

The woman aborted for social or economic reasons

92.330%

No reason (elective)

 

[Odinson]

 

• Do we need  two flippin threads

 

 

Unfortunately, yes. Both threads are viable. We can't abort either of them. 

[Stretch]

 

In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the US. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.

 

 

 

 

It does not matter if you only have a fraction of a percent related to fetal health problems or health risks to the mother, by criminalising it you have removed all choice away from that mother who's baby or own life is at risk. You are forcing that person to go an seek alternatives in a country that is not theirs and with doctors that are not familiar to them

 

you just need to listen to/or read Ciara's story here to understand the importance of a country being able to provide a choice for a mother

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0508/961047-eighth-amendment-womens-stories/

 

And to me, you just need one example such as that to actually understand that it should never ever be anything but a choice that a mother can make, and no one else should be dictating to them what their choice can only be.

 

Dont read that story - take the time out and listen to it so you really can feel and understand what she went through. No person deserves to go through that

[Robbie Stewart]

As noted in the statistics I posted in my previous thread, the overwhelming majority of abortions are in fact not because of rape, or the mother or child being in dire health. 

The VAST majority of abortions are because of convenience, and this to me is unacceptable. As gummibear mentioned, people tend to use abortion as birth-control. And THAT is a fact as noted above.

[Allrounder]

Maybe I should not stick around for this fred. 

 

My wife and I can not have kids according to doctors. We are on the adoption list, but so far nothing. Family friends have been on the list for 6 years and also nothing. 

 

Reason for telling you this is, The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.

 

That means that world wide, people who are dreaming of becoming parents, but can not lost 71740 possibilities. 

 

I know this is not about adoptions and that I am probably coming with the wrong angle on the wrong fred, but still. 

[Mojoman]

Over 7 billion people in the world.....most are well below any decent standard of living....

Pro abortion here....