The Gender Thread

[Grease_Monkey]

The point I'm trying to make I guess overall is... why do we even care why people want to change their gender? What business is it of ours?

Because IF (and I don't claim to know how many cases this is) it is a mental issue, you treat the mental issue, not change the person's gender. In those cases changing the gender does not solve the issue, and even after transitioning the person is left confused and in mental anguish.

 

Understanding why is probably the most important part of the journey - not for others curiosity - but for the individual so they can choose the right path for them to follow.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

At some point very earlyin that childs development he is going to realise that he is not in fact a girl and will begin to question the identity he has been forced into. I have heard a story which was the opposite. How a boy was born and despite the parents best intentions he always moved towards playing with his sister's toys. He was born a boy and raised a boy... If environment plays such a role why would his environment that he was raised in not force him down a path of remaining a boy instead of transitioning to a girl later in life?

What if a boy just likes playing with girls toys? Or likes doing (so-called) girly activities? I find nothing wrong with that at all, but the gender dysphoria side of things may want to say he's a girl in a boy's body, which may be flagrantly untrue.

[Grease_Monkey]

What if a boy just likes playing with girls toys? Or likes doing (so-called) girly activities? I find nothing wrong with that at all, but the gender dysphoria side of things may want to say he's a girl in a boy's body, which may be flagrantly untrue.

This exactly... some boys (and girls) are just drawn to activities normally associated with the opposite gender - and while I think most people realise this, in recent times I think things are too easily accepted as a gender/sexuality issue. Not saying we should go back to the stone ages, but a little more probing into the issue should take place.

 

Eg: Charlize Theron's comment a few weeks back about her very young son saying he is now a girl (sounded like an out of the blue comment), and now she will raise him as such. I mean shyte - as a kid I am sure I did some girly things such as letting an older girl put lipstick on me (I was 5), doesn't mean I should have been raised as a girl.

 

Point I'm trying to make is that I think society has become so scared of not being PC or accepting of everyone and everything that we do not use critical thinking and investigation to situations anymore. If that is applied I think many of the confused young people (read: many, NOT all) may not be as confused as they are at the moment.

[Stretch]

What if a boy just likes playing with girls toys? Or likes doing (so-called) girly activities? I find nothing wrong with that at all, but the gender dysphoria side of things may want to say he's a girl in a boy's body, which may be flagrantly untrue.

I don't have any problems with that either. As for the labeling... Are you saying that labelling them as a boy in girls clothing or a girl in boys clothing would aid in their decision to transform?

[Capricorn]

I don't have any problems with that either. As for the labeling... Are you saying that labelling them as a boy in girls clothing or a girl in boys clothing would aid in their decision to transform?

are adult and social influences not also environmental?

And therefore, it's possible it becomes their decision even though don't fully understand it. For some people, what is decided for them at a young age becomes their belief in later years to the point it is indistinct from a personal choice. So what you stated as 'their decision' can be debateable.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I don't have any problems with that either. As for the labeling... Are you saying that labelling them as a boy in girls clothing or a girl in boys clothing would aid in their decision to transform?

Again with the assumption of what I meant, when I just meant what I said and nothing more.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. I'm saying that sometimes girls like things that are traditional "boy" things and vice versa. Nothing wrong with that at all, and it DOESN'T mean that there's any sort of gender fluidity at all. It's just what it is.

[Stretch]

 

 

are adult and social influences not also environmental?

And therefore, it's possible it becomes their decision even though don't fully understand it. For some people, what is decided for them at a young age becomes their belief in later years to the point it is indistinct from a personal choice. So what you stated as 'their decision' can be debateable.

Like I said earlier. I cannot agree or disagree with this unless there are studies which provide evidence for either scenario.

[Stretch]

 

 

Again with the assumption of what I meant, when I just meant what I said and nothing more.

 

.

You see that thing at the end of my sentence that looks like this "?" That's called a question mark. It's usually used when someone is asking a question.

 

To make it clear. I was asking you a question if that is what you were meaning without first making an assumption

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

You see that thing at the end of my sentence that looks like this "?" That's called a question mark. It's usually used when someone is asking a question.

 

To make it clear. I was asking you a question if that is what you were meaning without first making an assumption

Yeah stretch, except I wasn't. I said what I said and nothing else. No inference, no ulterior motive, nothing. Just a simple statement that sometimes it's as simple as a girl liking boys things and vice versa. If I'd wanted to infer something else, or say something else, I would have.

 

But no, what you inferred / asked whether I said was not what I was saying. No need to be snippy. There's not always subtext or hints or such. Sometimes it's as simple as it looks.

 

Whether someone decided that that "dysphoria" is a reason to believe that their child is gender fluid or not is the issue. People using things like this to further their own agenda.

 

Oh, he likes Barbies, he must think he's a girl. ERM, nope, maybe, he just likes Barbies. It's the assumption that's behind that sort of thinking that is, for me, an issue.

 

That's also what I said.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Stretch]

 

 

Yeah stretch, except I wasn't. I said what I said and nothing else. .

Yup and I'm trying to point out that you lambasted me because You assumed I made an assumption when I was just trying to get clarity on what you were saying.

[gummibear]

 

Eg: Charlize Theron's comment a few weeks back about her very young son saying he is now a girl (sounded like an out of the blue comment), and now she will raise him as such. I mean shyte - as a kid I am sure I did some girly things such as letting an older girl put lipstick on me (I was 5), doesn't mean I should have been raised as a girl.

 

 

Yeah that's gonna be fun when "she" hits puberty

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yup and I'm trying to point out that you lambasted me because You assumed I made an assumption when I was just trying to get clarity on what you were saying.

Fair enough, dude. But I was just saying what I said. Nothing more. It's that inference that bugs me, because if I'd wanted to say that, I would have. A tip, if I may be so brash. Instead of being Cathy Newman, and asking if this is what I mean (and being able to frame it in a way that suits your argument which may be completely different to what I actually mean) ask "what do you mean by that, and how does it pertain to XYZ"

 

 

One infers that I hinted at something, or included it as part of an argument, bit in a way that reframes it according to your preconceived notions. The other is legitimately asking for clarification.

 

It's a small, yet important distinction

Edited May 15, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Stretch]

Fair enough, dude. But I was just saying what I said. Nothing more. It's that inference that bugs me, because if I'd wanted to say that, I would have. A tip, if I may be so brash. Instead of being Cathy Newman, and asking if this is what I mean (and being able to frame it in a way that suits your argument which may be completely different to what I actually mean) ask "what do you mean by that, and how does it pertain to XYZ"

 

 

One infers that I hinted at something, or included it as part of an argument, bit in a way that reframes it according to your preconceived notions. The other is legitimately asking for clarification.

 

It's a small, yet important distinction

And in response to that..a tip, if I may be so brash... Instead of coming out the blocks with "again with your assumptions" might I suggest a less hostile approach like "I'm not sure if you're making an assumption, but..." Edited May 15, 2019 by Stretch

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

And in response to that..a tip, if I may be so brash... Instead of coming out the blocks with "again with your assumptions" might I suggest a less hostile approach like "I'm not sure if you're making an assumption, but..."

Done. ????

 

My apologies.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Patchelicious]

Fair enough, dude. But I was just saying what I said. Nothing more. It's that inference that bugs me, because if I'd wanted to say that, I would have. A tip, if I may be so brash. Instead of being Cathy Newman, and asking if this is what I mean (and being able to frame it in a way that suits your argument which may be completely different to what I actually mean) ask "what do you mean by that, and how does it pertain to XYZ"

 

 

One infers that I hinted at something, or included it as part of an argument, bit in a way that reframes it according to your preconceived notions. The other is legitimately asking for clarification.

 

It's a small, yet important distinction

 

I wish more people would do that.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I wish more people would do that.

Exactly! This "did you mean / are you saying XYZ" is bloody infuriating and doesn't help a discussion at all.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem