Where to buy Sapim double butted spokes and nipples

[DieselnDust]

ok... vague. i'm assuming ridged here refers to the 1.7mm spokes.

 

which are not as elastic. I'm guessing we want elastic, ridged normally means break in in this type of world where some give is good.

 

but then reference are made "when you are building" is this only then, or do we have a problem further down the single track.

 

G

 

 

2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted are not as elastic under tension as the 2.0/1.7/2.0 Wheelsmith DB14.

The more elastic spokes will deliver a less stiff wheel which can be desirable as it will help the wheel conform more in turns and off camber trail and in rutts. A stiffer wheel transfer  everything to the tyre. A more resilient wheel (with the thinner spokes) is better able to handle deflections through rock gardens and other trail obstacles but won't feel as direct in steering.

If building a high spoke count wheel with 32H rims and hubs you can also consider the DT Revolution spokes (2.0/1.5/2.0 not the 1.8/1.5/2.0) 

 

For lower spoke count wheels 28H or less they may not be stiff enought to prevent the wheel rubbing the frame with 2.35 tyres fitted.

[awesme]

... ok, higher spoke count, I can go thinner spokes, with less tension,

Fewer spokes, need each to carry more tension ... and/or thicker spokes.

 

As a take away from that ?

 

so for me, 65kg, 32 spokes, 2.35 front, a 2.0/1.8/2.0 or 2.0/1.7/2.0 sound like a good idea ?

 

my normal wheel build normally uses Sapim, still playing with idea if i will have him do all, with me there to lace and do initial tension and he completes, (most probable idea, considering the level of the bike being build).

 

G

 

2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted are not as elastic under tension as the 2.0/1.7/2.0 Wheelsmith DB14.

The more elastic spokes will deliver a less stiff wheel which can be desirable as it will help the wheel conform more in turns and off camber trail and in rutts. A stiffer wheel transfer  everything to the tyre. A more resilient wheel (with the thinner spokes) is better able to handle deflections through rock gardens and other trail obstacles but won't feel as direct in steering.

If building a high spoke count wheel with 32H rims and hubs you can also consider the DT Revolution spokes (2.0/1.5/2.0 not the 1.8/1.5/2.0) 

 

For lower spoke count wheels 28H or less they may not be stiff enought to prevent the wheel rubbing the frame with 2.35 tyres fitted.

[awesme]

but then I'll get some directional stability back considering the fork will be boost based.

 

 but won't feel as direct in steering.

 

 

[Long Wheel Base]

see they are a .com... implies you imported yourself ?

 

time/cost ?

 

G

Yes Sir, I will try dig out the cost and times. But I don't remember it being a frustrating experience wrt to waiting time. 

[awesme]

and i got time, so can look at ordering now...

 

G

 

Yes Sir, I will try dig out the cost and times. But I don't remember it being a frustrating experience wrt to waiting time. 

[Barry]

I was looking for spokes for some Fulcrum wheels odd size

Looked everywhere J&J, Cutting Edge etc

Ended up going to Rapied online store ordered and had spokes next day

[CdT85]

I have used spoke from Rapide for multiple wheel set builds. I cant fault their quality or service. Im 97kg on a good day, and haven't managed to break spokes on my bike. Running the bladed spokes on my Stan Flow Ex wheelset on my enduro rig, and ran the normal double butted ones on my dh bike's wheels. Plenty strong and stiff enough. Speak to Wayne a.k.a. Kiwi. if you order today, you will most probably have your spokes tomorrow.

[Barry]

https://www.bikehub.co.za/user/1841-kiwi/

 

https://www.rapide.co.za/product-category/spokes-and-nipples/

[DieselnDust]

... ok, higher spoke count, I can go thinner spokes, with less tension,

Fewer spokes, need each to carry more tension ... and/or thicker spokes.

 

As a take away from that ?  pretty much sums it up from that perspective

 

so for me, 65kg, 32 spokes, 2.35 front, a 2.0/1.8/2.0 or 2.0/1.7/2.0 sound like a good idea ? Yes but you could go lighter on the spokes if these are your racing or high performance wheels. If #enduro or trail then maybe er on the heavier gauge side,...2.0./1.8/2.0

 

my normal wheel build normally uses Sapim, still playing with idea if i will have him do all, with me there to lace and do initial tension and he completes, (most probable idea, considering the level of the bike being build).

 

G

[awesme]

actually just discovered to my surprise... I'm using 2.0/1.9/2.0 expected it to be 2/1.8/2.

 

Will discuss with wheel builder on Wednesday.

 

G

 

 

 

... ok, higher spoke count, I can go thinner spokes, with less tension,

Fewer spokes, need each to carry more tension ... and/or thicker spokes.

 

As a take away from that ?  pretty much sums it up from that perspective

 

so for me, 65kg, 32 spokes, 2.35 front, a 2.0/1.8/2.0 or 2.0/1.7/2.0 sound like a good idea ? Yes but you could go lighter on the spokes if these are your racing or high performance wheels. If #enduro or trail then maybe er on the heavier gauge side,...2.0./1.8/2.0

 

my normal wheel build normally uses Sapim, still playing with idea if i will have him do all, with me there to lace and do initial tension and he completes, (most probable idea, considering the level of the bike being build).

 

G

 

[David Marshall]

More questions than answers on this thread.

 

re: Mixing spoke thicknesses on the same build.  Makes the build difficult as the spokes behave differently.  Wheelsmith deflect my tension meter 1.90 while Pillar 2.05 at 110kg.  Also the sound is very different when you "pluck" to balance the tension.  Laborious to have to treat a couple of spokes differently on every revolution. If possible use the same spokes on the whole side if you have to mix. It won't make a difference to performance. Most spoke replacements done in the trade are straight gauge repairs anyway.

 

As for tension the final wheel tension is more rim dependant than on spoke thickness.  Thick or thin spokes will be tightened to the same kgf - and should be to the optimum for that rim.  Reducing tension will increase flexion and fatigue while too much tension gives you a very strong, durable wheel in the radial plane but weakens the lateral plane.

 

If you are going to assemble the wheel before the wheel builder gets it let him check your calculations and give you tips on the lacing before you do it.  Otherwise he will have to re do and will charge you anyway!

[awesme]

Hi Dave,

 

but is this not good, for a change, lots of questions, with lots of good answers makes for a valuable thread.

 

not sure how where the misunderstanding came in, never intended to mix spokes, plan is to pick one and thats it, I'm currently some where between Wheelsmith, Pillar and Sappim (my builders normal build spokes), my currently wheel is build to my surprise 2.0/1.9/2.0 Double butted, expect that 1.9 to have been 1.8, will discuss with him tomorrow.

 

I'll have a chat with wheel builder tomorrow night, assume I will give him my home work, to check before I order, I want to then d all the lacing, and initial tension, he then checks and we see from there... if I tension/true all the way... it's also allot bout time as I will prob go do this in the shop as I still want to order a stand and tensionomiter... just don't have funds atm, and not a cheap unit to get shipped

 

G

 

More questions than answers on this thread.

 

re: Mixing spoke thicknesses on the same build.  Makes the build difficult as the spokes behave differently.  Wheelsmith deflect my tension meter 1.90 while Pillar 2.05 at 110kg.  Also the sound is very different when you "pluck" to balance the tension.  Laborious to have to treat a couple of spokes differently on every revolution. If possible use the same spokes on the whole side if you have to mix. It won't make a difference to performance. Most spoke replacements done in the trade are straight gauge repairs anyway.

 

As for tension the final wheel tension is more rim dependant than on spoke thickness.  Thick or thin spokes will be tightened to the same kgf - and should be to the optimum for that rim.  Reducing tension will increase flexion and fatigue while too much tension gives you a very strong, durable wheel in the radial plane but weakens the lateral plane.

 

If you are going to assemble the wheel before the wheel builder gets it let him check your calculations and give you tips on the lacing before you do it.  Otherwise he will have to re do and will charge you anyway!

[Eddy Gordo]

I have used spoke from Rapide for multiple wheel set builds. I cant fault their quality or service. Im 97kg on a good day, and haven't managed to break spokes on my bike. Running the bladed spokes on my Stan Flow Ex wheelset on my enduro rig, and ran the normal double butted ones on my dh bike's wheels. Plenty strong and stiff enough. Speak to Wayne a.k.a. Kiwi. if you order today, you will most probably have your spokes tomorrow.

I can agree with this. I have two wheelsets running these spokes and nipples. No issues at all, one is on a HT which I think I ride hard. Well, I have managed to slightly separate the pin joint, but the wheel is still true!

[awesme]

Need some confirmation here please.

 

Please look at the attached pics, I count the one wheel as a 3 cross build and the other as a 1 cross?

 

G

 

sorry, took photo, pulled the one apart and only then noticed not the best view. (3 cross pic, wheel on the bed)