Speed of technology advancement

[NotSoBigBen]

Just something I've been contemplating, often you hear someone say something like '105 of today is as good as or better than Dura Ace of x years ago'

 

So I've been thinking is it possible to actually define a period within which the lowest (let's stick with 105 vs DA or perhaps SLX vs XTR) will in fact 'catch up' to the highest?

 

Also would that be in tech as well as materials/weight...

 

I would think that in these tough times when people consider 'upgrading' groupsets it could be useful.

[BaGearA]

I think the slx of 2012 was already a massive improvement over 2006 XTR

 

 

pre clutch era

[mecheng89]

GCN has done of a video on modern 105 compared to ancient Dura Ace, literally a few days ago.

[missioner]

Trickle down technology is SOP across most manufacturers in the industry, even frame builders do it. Not as quickly as component manufacturers, but it's very common practice for last year's race frame to be rebranded and sold as the new top tier amateur frame.

 

Following that logic you can ride this year's pro race bike in about 3 years from now, at a third of the money, albeit with some compromises.

 

SRAM does do trickle down but to a much lesser degree than Shimano, because each level is actually made differently as they have different applications. For example X0 will be predominantly aluminium, GX steel and composite plastics and then XX1/2 uses much more carbon fibre and titanium. The designs do trickle down to the lower levels each year but the materials won't. They don't actually intend for XX(?) to be used for anything but racing.

 

There are some other things that also don't trickle down, the feel of the shifters and the derailleur spring tensions. This is very true for Shimano. Dura-Ace and XTR both have very loud mechanical sounding shifters (at least the cable ones do) vs the lower gruppo's, and they are engineered that way. One of the top techs at Coolheat explained this to me years ago, and it simply because of Pro riders.

 

MTB components are not made much smoother as you go down the ladder, they just get more durable( heavy)and relaible. Road components do the same to some degree but they get adjusted for smoother shifting and greater comfort, basically the years worth of Pro feedback to the engineers then translates to both the new DA and also to Ultegra resulting in improvements for both groupsets the following year.

 

TL;DR yes there is trickle down from top tier groupsets to lower ones, but even old top tier is still top tier on purpose. 2017 XTR/DA is not equal to 2020 SLX/105, they are still different I'm major ways.

[JA-Q001]

There are some things that do not trickle down. Unfortunately 105 will never be Dura-Ace, no matter how long you wait. Dura-Ace is expensive because of manufacturing techniques, materials used tolerances, coatings, etc. Ceramic bearings are used instead of steel. Cranksets are clam shell manufactured instead of cold pressed.

 

How something works, that will trickle down, so in that terms, only groups in the same model period is the same.

[Frosty]

I agree with JA-Q001.

 

I have DA-7800 on one bike, and the build quality is superior to my 105 5800 on another bike. The front derailleur is an example of the quality difference between the two, with DA being much better. The trim function doesn’t work well on the 105 group set.

 

However, the new dual-pivot brakes on the 105 are more effective than the 2007 DA brakes. I need less force on the levers to stop compared to the DA brakes.

[T_Boss]

Maybe not all tech advancement is for the better.....

 

https://www.cyclingnews.com/amp/news/electronic-gears-battery-failure-ruins-uttrup-ludwigs-medal-hopes-at-worlds-road-race/

 

Haha

[MrJacques]

There are some things that do not trickle down. Unfortunately 105 will never be Dura-Ace, no matter how long you wait. Dura-Ace is expensive because of manufacturing techniques, materials used tolerances, coatings, etc. Ceramic bearings are used instead of steel. Cranksets are clam shell manufactured instead of cold pressed.

 

How something works, that will trickle down, so in that terms, only groups in the same model period is the same.

 

True, some feature found in XT, XTR like multiple shifts don't trickle down.

[lechatnoir]

looks like shimano revises every 4-5 years. Some things do trickle down, and others do... it depends. but that's vague. i guess, it's up to the product manager.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimano - look at the cascade between the various levels. looks like a new DA is imminent...  perhaps next year though

[Eldron]

Like most things in life there are no absolutes but with trickle down the 105/SLX of today has many functions the DA/XTR of yesteryear didn't have.

 

The lower end groupsets will never have the exotic lightweight materials and manufacturing techniques of the higher groupsets but they will have trickle down tech.

 

Clutch RD

Brake lever stabilization

New FD with built in tension adjustment and stabalization

Various Hyperglide tooth/chain additions

Hell even indexed gears!

 

Of course this year's XT/Ultegra won't be better than last year's XTR/DA but to answer the OP's question I reckon about 8 years is the point at which current 105/SLX is better than (8) year old DA/XTR.

[NotSoBigBen]

Thanks for everyone's insights, I feel somewhat more enlightened to be able to answer a question like that next time it comes up or at least to discuss it without feeling doff!