24" stans crest MK4 rims - 24 hole- where to buy?

[quade]

Hey all

My kids are racing in the Western Cape schools league, I bought a new bike for one of them, it's the lightest available but still horribly heavy, so I'm switching out the forks and trying to find light wheels

I can find a 32 hole rim but for XC racing a 24 hole rim will be fine ( he doesn't jump) 

Any ideas where to find the rim so I can kick off a wheel build project ?

 

Alternatively are there any other light weight rims or wheel sets in 24" available ?

 

Thanks 

Mark

[BaGearA]

are the hubs 24 ? 

 

If 32 will work why not just go with it ?

[Jewbacca]

I've been down the road looking for 20 and 24 inch tubeless wheels.

Anything 'good' you will need to import at a premium. You won't find a whole lot on the local market.

24 hole isn't going to save you much weight for the effort it will take to find. A good set of lightweight RELIABLE hubs laced to the rims you can find will be a huge weight loss already.

Look at the crankset (I cut down 2 different cranksets to 145) as a lot of kids bikes come with pretty pathetic square taper BB/cranks which weigh a ton.

The groupset and brakes are next.

As an aside, skills and focussing on fun and learning are probably better motivators for a kid at that stage of bikes. 

I'm not going to tell you how to parent, but racing at that sort of stage in life shouldn't come with added pressure and expectation. It IS, however, a really cool project if you have the time and the knowledge to do it yourself.

I did all this for me and my bikes, but that will eventually filter down to my son when he gets big enough to ride all the tiny, full specced bikes I've built.

[V18]

On the same topic of kiddies race bikes. My son is 7. And really excelling in terms of skill on mtb. Does most of the blue/green 5 routes. I have to help him to to the top occasionally as his bike weighs probably close to 30% of his body weight (he's lightweight chassis like his mom) . 

I know earlyrider focus on this a little bit. But what @Jewbacca mentioned made me think. Maybe a little project bike for him won't be the worst of type 2 fun. 

Has anyone imported xs 26er carbon hardtail frames here before?

I'm thinking of building with 24 wheels first and then switching up. Should last him through most of primary school. Maybe make long climbs a bit more fun. 

[quade]

On 3/30/2024 at 7:28 AM, BaGearA said:

are the hubs 24 ? 

 

If 32 will work why not just go with it ?

The current hubs are lead weights and feel like sand paper so will be charging these out as well so it's a new build, and since I'm starting from scratch I figured I'd do it properly

 

32 will work but will be heavier and you don't need 32 for 24" wheel on XC .... Enduro and jumps are a different story.

 

If there is an option, I'd rather get lighter

[Jewbacca]

18 minutes ago, V18 said:

On the same topic of kiddies race bikes. My son is 7. And really excelling in terms of skill on mtb. Does most of the blue/green 5 routes. I have to help him to to the top occasionally as his bike weighs probably close to 30% of his body weight (he's lightweight chassis like his mom) . 

I know earlyrider focus on this a little bit. But what @Jewbacca mentioned made me think. Maybe a little project bike for him won't be the worst of type 2 fun. 

Has anyone imported xs 26er carbon hardtail frames here before?

I'm thinking of building with 24 wheels first and then switching up. Should last him through most of primary school. Maybe make long climbs a bit more fun. 

If you really want a project, Cut, sleeve, bond and wrap an existing bike......

I'm finishing off a 20" carbon full suss with 107mm travel and 120mm fork 

Made from a modified XL trek front triangle and a modded Transition rear end.

I'm going to ride it hard to check that it's safe. 

[Jewbacca]

3 minutes ago, quade said:

The current hubs are lead weights and feel like sand paper so will be charging these out as well so it's a new build, and since I'm starting from scratch I figured I'd do it properly

 

32 will work but will be heavier and you don't need 32 for 24" wheel on XC .... Enduro and jumps are a different story.

 

If there is an option, I'd rather get lighter

I searched pretty hard. 28 and 32 hole rims are about all you will get that are decent.

https://thebikedads.com/

This site is handy and links quite a few sites which we can import from. 

The only other thing I could suggest is contacting the Commencal importers and the Titan and Silverback importers.

The Commencal kids bikes have Spank Spoon rims which are strong and light and tubeless. The others are rebranded or branded Alex rims, which are less good but honestly, the kids weigh so little they aren't going to be burping tires and struggling with ballooning on corners

After a good few years of playing with this, I've realised not to overthink kids bikes for kids. 

Get some small hand short reach hydraulic brake levers, a small hand short reach shifter, a very responsive fork that can run at super low pressures without wallowing and let them rip

[V18]

@Jewbacca... How willing are you to make a primary school xco bike for monetary exchange... Sounds like you have this down to a T

[quade]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:07 AM, Jewbacca said:

I've been down the road looking for 20 and 24 inch tubeless wheels.

Anything 'good' you will need to import at a premium. You won't find a whole lot on the local market.

24 hole isn't going to save you much weight for the effort it will take to find. A good set of lightweight RELIABLE hubs laced to the rims you can find will be a huge weight loss already.

Look at the crankset (I cut down 2 different cranksets to 145) as a lot of kids bikes come with pretty pathetic square taper BB/cranks which weigh a ton.

The groupset and brakes are next.

As an aside, skills and focussing on fun and learning are probably better motivators for a kid at that stage of bikes. 

I'm not going to tell you how to parent, but racing at that sort of stage in life shouldn't come with added pressure and expectation. It IS, however, a really cool project if you have the time and the knowledge to do it yourself.

I did all this for me and my bikes, but that will eventually filter down to my son when he gets big enough to ride all the tiny, full specced bikes I've built.

Wise words, they have always had high end kids bikes like Isla Bikes, his current bike is 8kg, but the new one is 12.3kg, and he just struggles to lift it as he's quite weedy, it's more about not putting them off than winning, and finishing and enjoying riding rather than struggling to handle a lead weight 

I spent my youth racing MTBs in the UK trying to keep up with my bro who was the UK MTB champion back in the day, I want to give my kids the opportunity to enjoy biking as much as I did 

 

I also really enjoy tinkering with their bikes ...it's therapeutic for me

 

Regarding the cranks, I just bought a set of goldix cranks from AliExpress, very light and lots of kiddy sizes available 

 

[BaGearA]

14 minutes ago, quade said:

The current hubs are lead weights and feel like sand paper so will be charging these out as well so it's a new build, and since I'm starting from scratch I figured I'd do it properly

 

32 will work but will be heavier and you don't need 32 for 24" wheel on XC .... Enduro and jumps are a different story.

 

If there is an option, I'd rather get lighter

Okay but going with an ally rim that has 24 holes rather than 32 will probably save less than 20grams 

 

Also factoring in the difficulty just to find it in the size you require 

 

There likely is a 24' racing wheelset out there made of unobtainium for 100k 

[quade]

5 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I searched pretty hard. 28 and 32 hole rims are about all you will get that are decent.

https://thebikedads.com/

This site is handy and links quite a few sites which we can import from. 

The only other thing I could suggest is contacting the Commencal importers and the Titan and Silverback importers.

The Commencal kids bikes have Spank Spoon rims which are strong and light and tubeless. The others are rebranded or branded Alex rims, which are less good but honestly, the kids weigh so little they aren't going to be burping tires and struggling with ballooning on corners

After a good few years of playing with this, I've realised not to overthink kids bikes for kids. 

Get some small hand short reach hydraulic brake levers, a small hand short reach shifter, a very responsive fork that can run at super low pressures without wallowing and let them rip

Thanks 

Bike dad's is an excellent site, but a bit USA focused and hard to get the components but great resources 

It actually has the Alex rims on already, I wonder how light they are compared with crest rims, I could just switch out to lighter spokes and hubs if marginal 

 

The new air 100mm forks at 1.6kg should help a lot.... Will wait for them to arrive and test 

 

[Jewbacca]

Just now, V18 said:

@Jewbacca... How willing are you to make a primary school xco bike for monetary exchange... Sounds like you have this down to a T

Down to a T is generous.

I have had to deal with a LOT of hurdles and it's been time consuming. I hard tail will definitely be easier

2 minutes ago, quade said:

Thanks 

Bike dad's is an excellent site, but a bit USA focused and hard to get the components but great resources 

It actually has the Alex rims on already, I wonder how light they are compared with crest rims, I could just switch out to lighter spokes and hubs if marginal 

 

The new air 100mm forks at 1.6kg should help a lot.... Will wait for them to arrive and test 

 

From my experience, the rims make little to no weight difference at this size. Hubs will save you loads of weight. 

Just use straight gauge spokes. The kids aren't heavy enough to flex the wheels and weight penalty is nil.

There is also the reality that things weigh what they weigh. I have a Momsen 20" kids bike. The frame and fork are carbon and weigh absolutely nothing. I've kitted it out with light 145mm cranks, a tiny sawn off seatpost, light cockpit and proper Hope Pro4 hubs laced to Spank spoon rims and tubeless tires.

The whole bike weighs in at 7.2kg ish.

I cannot see a reasonable, working bicycle weighing less than that unless it's SS with only a back brake.

[quade]

30 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Down to a T is generous.

I have had to deal with a LOT of hurdles and it's been time consuming. I hard tail will definitely be easier

From my experience, the rims make little to no weight difference at this size. Hubs will save you loads of weight. 

Just use straight gauge spokes. The kids aren't heavy enough to flex the wheels and weight penalty is nil.

There is also the reality that things weigh what they weigh. I have a Momsen 20" kids bike. The frame and fork are carbon and weigh absolutely nothing. I've kitted it out with light 145mm cranks, a tiny sawn off seatpost, light cockpit and proper Hope Pro4 hubs laced to Spank spoon rims and tubeless tires.

The whole bike weighs in at 7.2kg ish.

I cannot see a reasonable, working bicycle weighing less than that unless it's SS with only a back brake.

Interesting

I will see if I can find out how much the Alex rims weigh, switching the hub and spokes will be less painful, I could just de-lace the wheel and figure it out from there, but a big task if I decide to switch the rim and have to rebuild!

A hub and spokes switch might just do the trick

So you have a 7.2kg 20" rigid mtb? That is impressive ! Mine is slightly over 8kg with aluminium frame.

 

24" is a headache 

26" is super easy, AliExpress have Mavic crossmax wheel set for around 2k, they are around 1680g for the 2, sadly nothing in the 24" 

Loads in 20" due to the Asia folding bike market 

 

[s14phoenix]

My boy just turned 6 and has been on his 24inch the last 6months. I have also been on this mission lately - started with the usual Titan 24" which came with 3x7 setup and 13ish KG.

Change to a 1x kiddies crank which was R400 and then relaced the rear rim to a normal freehub rear hub. A lot of the issue is the 36 holes and spokes which limited the hubs available - which needed to just about be free. I then fitted old SLX 9sp shifter and XT rear derailleur with a Sram 980 11-34 cassette. Maxxis Snyper tyres.  kcnc cockpit with a carbon seatpost - in total I shaved about 3kg off the bike but STILL weighs 10kg. 

It is rediculous what the kids bikes weigh for their size. I have now decided that no futher upgrades would be going onto the 24" and would focus rather on the carbon XS 26er @ 9.5kg (currently) that I have "waiting" for his as soon as he fits - that my wife rides when we go out as a fam.

The aim is to get the 26er to about 8.5kg which with careful parts selection shouldn't be too difficult as it has not even been converted to tubeless yet and has a very heavy gel ladies saddle.

good luck bikehub daddies - glad to see I am not the only fool suffering with this 😄

[V18]

Maybe sticking to 20" for weight saving as long as possible isn't a bad idea 

[babse]

Stans rims... Always sounds like a cracking idea 

 

🫢