Intermittent Fasting

[love2fly]

In the past I've experimented with fasted rides and 18:6 fasting and had encouraging results.

I'm 61 years old and ride 4 times a week. 

I've been trying to lose weight and over the last 5 years have dropped from 125kg to around 100 then up to 113 and now after a couple of weeks, back at just under 110.

Where I've become derailed previously (I think) is trying to lose weight and train, doing longer rides on weekends and the odd set of HIT on a weekdays, so I've decided to scrap that and focus on weight loss ONLY. As if I can lose around 15kg the climbing ability and fitness will be easier to achieve. To do this I've started doing 18:6 fasting, skipping breakfast and eating again at 12:00, for the last week, and riding 4 days, fasted at Z2 for 2 hours Tue, Thur and weekends.

My question is, can and should I fast 18:6 every day or should I have breakfast now and then?

I manage to get to 12:00 without too much hunger ...

My nemesis used to be carbs and in particular bread, pasta etc. Most days I might eat a wrap with one of my meals or 2 slices of toast very seldom, going with a much higher protein and somewhat higher on fat - I'm going to look at reducing fat content going forward....

[Puncture Kid]

I also do IF for weight loss and general health. But I sometimes do 20:4 but mostly OMAD.

You will struggle to do IF + strenuous exercise if your metabolism is not fat adapted. The channel below has incredible videos explained in very understandable terms. The Dr is a huge proponent of the keto diet and eating REAL food.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ekberg+intermittent+fasting+exercise

 

In this video he analyses and explains nutrient pools and how your body (during fasting) reacts and generates energy to exercise at different levels (aerobic / anearobic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWSI3xXV3fc

[SSCC]

53 minutes ago, love2fly said:

In the past I've experimented with fasted rides and 18:6 fasting and had encouraging results.

I'm 61 years old and ride 4 times a week. 

I've been trying to lose weight and over the last 5 years have dropped from 125kg to around 100 then up to 113 and now after a couple of weeks, back at just under 110.

How tall are you and how muscular? Unless you are both tall and very muscular then you body fat percentage must be pretty high.

There is nothing magic about IF. If you eat the same quantity of calories in the 6hr window you wont lose weight.

If you are not type 2 diabetic or have any metabolic dysfunction - If you preference is carbs then listen to that. Try a low fat diet, moderate protein, moderate to high carbs, control total calories and you will lose weight. It really is as simple as that. If you don't lose weight then you are probably eating too much fat or calories in total.

Why not try something different given that IF has not resulted in any significant weight loss in the past?

[love2fly]

6 minutes ago, SSCC said:

How tall are you and how muscular? Unless you are both tall and very muscular then you body fat percentage must be pretty high.

There is nothing magic about IF. If you eat the same quantity of calories in the 6hr window you wont lose weight.

If you are not type 2 diabetic or have any metabolic dysfunction - If you preference is carbs then listen to that. Try a low fat diet, moderate protein, moderate to high carbs, control total calories and you will lose weight. It really is as simple as that. If you don't lose weight then you are probably eating too much fat or calories in total.

Why not try something different given that IF has not resulted in any significant weight loss in the past?

Yip, body fat content way too high.

As per post, I have experimented with IF an had encouraging results. The issue was that I didn't stick to it long term and it got lost in trying to do higher intensity stuff and fuelling for that....

I eat less total calories as I do not eat any extra in the remaining 2 meals.

My understanding of IF AND fasted (low intensity ides) is that it forces your body to adapt to burning fat as a source of fuel.

I am typically an all or nothing guy. 26 years ago I quit smoking when I started cycling. Over the years I tried to cut back but after 19 years of smoking, cold turkey was what got me to the goal.

Same with calories, I love food, am a self taight chef/cook and after cycling its a love of mine and I find it very hard to get by by limiting quantities all the time, I rather don't do a meal at all.....

 

[Nestus]

I do most of my training, running or cycling in a fasted state early mornings. When i do longer and hard rides i break my fast and have some good fats and protein before the ride. I also do 18:6 IF and with a good diet i lost 13kg in the past year. I am 192 tall and now weigh 81kg. I consume between 30g and 50g of carbs per day which comes from berries, veggies and salad, the rest is all protein and fats. As Puncture Kid mentioned, if you are not fat adapted, you will struggle. Since i am doing the above, i have not bonked once. I don't event consume carbs during my rides, only electrolytes and salt and water.  Personally i feel you don't need moderate to high carbs, you need a good balanced diet.
Everyone will have their own opinion, we all have different experiences and our bodies work in different ways. You will have to experiment and see what works for you.

[peetwindhoek]

I’ve learned most of what I know from Dr. Ekberg’s videos (that Puncture Kid mentioned).

IF while still carb-dependent and not fat-adapted is like being a weekend smoker - you burn out during the week (cravings and mind games), just waiting for the weekend to start smoking again. That’s why I wouldn't recommend IF unless you're following a fat-adapted diet.

The real magic of IF comes when your body’s in ketosis, generating ketones, and triggering autophagy. For moderate training, I fast and only take electrolytes. But for harder sessions or races, I skip fasting that day and eat breakfast instead.

[Puncture Kid]

2 minutes ago, peetwindhoek said:

I’ve learned most of what I know from Dr. Ekberg’s videos (that Puncture Kid mentioned).

IF while still carb-dependent and not fat-adapted is like being a weekend smoker - you burn out during the week (cravings and mind games), just waiting for the weekend to start smoking again. That’s why I wouldn't recommend IF unless you're following a fat-adapted diet.

The real magic of IF comes when your body’s in ketosis, generating ketones, and triggering autophagy. For moderate training, I fast and only take electrolytes. But for harder sessions or races, I skip fasting that day and eat breakfast instead.

Yes exactly this. You need to follow these steps in order:

1 Become fat adapted on non-IF meal times (3 meals a day)

2 Then only introduce IF and over time narrowing the eating window. Being fat adapted means that you will not be hungry at all and will not crave carbs

 

I am also a home cook and love to eat (and drink). But I had to adapt my cooking to accomodate a minimal carb approach. I now religiously read food labels and avoiding anything containing sugar. But it is hard because even chicken stock contains 3% sugar. Making everything from scratch does help excluding unwanted ingredients.

[Titleist]

All the info here means absolutely nothing without better facts.

 

What is a harder session? Is it tempo or VO2 max? Sprints? 120% of FTP?

Racing. How long is the race? How hard is it? What is the RPE?

Burning fat can only happen when you are cycling at an intensity where your muscles can access your fat stores. An easy ride might not be easy enough for this to happen.

[peetwindhoek]

For further consideration: when first starting out, it can take the body 4-6 weeks to become fat-adapted. Once fat-adapted, if you break ketosis with a carb binge (e.g., over Christmas), it depends on your circumstances how long it will take to get back into ketosis. Once, after such a binge (and not wanting to disrupt my host), it took me 9 days to get back into ketosis. I use a glucometer that measures blood glucose and ketone levels to confirm where I’m at.

[Puncture Kid]

6 minutes ago, Titleist said:

All the info here means absolutely nothing without better facts.

 

What is a harder session? Is it tempo or VO2 max? Sprints? 120% of FTP?

Racing. How long is the race? How hard is it? What is the RPE?

Burning fat can only happen when you are cycling at an intensity where your muscles can access your fat stores. An easy ride might not be easy enough for this to happen.

Your body can burn fat at basal metabolic rate if you are fat adapted.

[MORNE]

10 minutes ago, peetwindhoek said:

I’ve learned most of what I know from Dr. Ekberg’s videos (that Puncture Kid mentioned).

IF while still carb-dependent and not fat-adapted is like being a weekend smoker - you burn out during the week (cravings and mind games), just waiting for the weekend to start smoking again. That’s why I wouldn't recommend IF unless you're following a fat-adapted diet.

The real magic of IF comes when your body’s in ketosis, generating ketones, and triggering autophagy. For moderate training, I fast and only take electrolytes. But for harder sessions or races, I skip fasting that day and eat breakfast instead.

Although i’ve done IF on and off in the past, the thing that got me to drop 30kg around 2016 and keeping it off for the most part, was starting to eat more fat and protein. so yes…basically keto. 
 

but to OP, in. The end you can literally eat cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner ( probably shouldnt)…if you aren't burning more than you are consuming, you’ll stall and wont lose weight. No fad diet or magic bullet will chamgr that reality. You seem to be lying to yourself somewhere when it comes to calorie counting. As already mentioned, high fat foods are calorie dense. A small amount eats inyo those limits fast. They do keep you fuller for longer though. Just my personal XP. 
 

ps: i went from 197cm 110kg all the way down to the leanest ive ever been..79kg (race weight). I did ut to see what was possible back then. I also realised my body doesn't want to stay there. It’s much happier around 85kg…so these days, thats my goal. 

[Robbie Stewart]

I'm currently doing IF since Monday. I am not familiar with any terminology, but I only eat one meal in the evening and don't pig out. During the day I drink water only. I did a ride this morning and I was struggling. I did one short burst at max effort for about 300m and I was properly shattered when I let off the power. The 18 km return back home was interesting. 

I did the same last year and dropped around 20kg from 130 to 110. Once winter hit I rode less, ate more and then got sick and injured which led to reduced riding, and I gained about 6kg back again.

I am aiming to get below 100kg this year and am really focussed on what I eat and drink.

[Puncture Kid]

2 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I'm currently doing IF since Monday. I am not familiar with any terminology, but I only eat one meal in the evening and don't pig out. During the day I drink water only. I did a ride this morning and I was struggling. I did one short burst at max effort for about 300m and I was properly shattered when I let off the power. The 18 km return back home was interesting. 

I did the same last year and dropped around 20kg from 130 to 110. Once winter hit I rode less, ate more and then got sick and injured which led to reduced riding, and I gained about 6kg back again.

I am aiming to get below 100kg this year and am really focussed on what I eat and drink.

You might not be fat adapted yet and ran out of glucose stores... It takes a while to get fat adapted. Do that before you start IF. I had the same experience as you trying IF before being properly fat adapted

[Robbie Stewart]

2 minutes ago, Puncture Kid said:

You might not be fat adapted yet and ran out of glucose stores... It takes a while to get fat adapted. Do that before you start IF. I had the same experience as you trying IF before being properly fat adapted

Thanks. I will do some reading on getting fat adapted. I intend to do this more frequently during the year to see how I can get my weight down. 

[love2fly]

3 minutes ago, Puncture Kid said:

You might not be fat adapted yet and ran out of glucose stores... It takes a while to get fat adapted. Do that before you start IF. I had the same experience as you trying IF before being properly fat adapted

Are Ketone strips of any value in assessing fat adaptation? (in the event of not having access to the blood test etc equipment)?

[love2fly]

8 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I'm currently doing IF since Monday. I am not familiar with any terminology, but I only eat one meal in the evening and don't pig out. During the day I drink water only. I did a ride this morning and I was struggling. I did one short burst at max effort for about 300m and I was properly shattered when I let off the power. The 18 km return back home was interesting. 

I did the same last year and dropped around 20kg from 130 to 110. Once winter hit I rode less, ate more and then got sick and injured which led to reduced riding, and I gained about 6kg back again.

I am aiming to get below 100kg this year and am really focussed on what I eat and drink.

I started last week Thursday and riding in strict Z2 -Z 2.5 on the odd climb and after 5 rides I can feel an improvement ie I don't feel completely bonked during riding