MTB Tire Direction

[HammerHed]

Where's the popcorn this is getting interesting!!

[GoLefty!!]

Go Headshock (sorry' date=' your avatar is not a Lefty) and  Borries.

The 2 of you seem you disagree about the amount of distribution of front to back.

So what is the 100% correctness and amount of distribution ? My next question is regarding the statements as made by you two highly esteemed gentleman.

Are they hearsay, fact or personal preference, unless you both have a thesis on your beliefs I would have to side with the tire companies that actually do this for a living.

[/quote']

 

I don't Lefty and I disagree (this time). It is just a bit of an elastic question. Not all bikes are set up the same, not all stems are installed to the same height ratios as people's weight distribution and not all people have the same stem length for their body shape.

 

Further, weight distribution changes all the time. If you stand it is different from when you tuck.

 

Therefore, anything from 40/60 to 50/50 is possible. Even outside that range will be plausible. Lefty seems to have measured his, probably statically on two scales, I dunno. Me, I make a calculated guess.

 

Show me the tyre company that says what you said and I'll drink Squirt. Everybody here knows how much I hate Squirt.

 

However,weight distribution has no affect on tyre tread patterns so lets focus on that.

 

 

Till then I would rather see all statements not as "science fiction" but rather as a layman's perception.

 

You've lost me' date=' sorry but I'm a right-brain thinker.

 

You would like a better statement Borries, now let me get this straight.

I have made no claim, I made it quite clear that I trust those who manufacture the stuff. Not claiming to be an expert.

 

 

I beg to disagree. You've given someone advice, backed it up with the statment of "the front wheel gives you the stability (or something to that effect, I'm not on that screen now to quote you directly) and the back wheel etc etc etc.

 

In my book, that's a statement. Semantics, but a statement.

 

Now if anyone needs to give a better explanation and not just assumptions it would be you sir.

I will take a guess that the tire direction on your bike is as suggested' date=' but I could be wrong.

 

[/quote']

 

You are right and wrong. I don't care which way my front wheel goes in. So much so, that I have a magnet for the computer on each side. On the rear wheel, I simply replace the tyre, not caring what direction it points to. Right now, I know it points in the right direction since the Larssen knobblies make a lot of noise on the tar and I do about four blocks of tar before I get on the Spruit.

 

As for the explanation, myself and others have written extensively about this, please do a search.

 

In a nutshell: Road bikes require ZERO thread.

Bike casings are unidirectional, since the threads are woven with a 37 degree bias and all side is same side on the casing.

Mud expelling is 90% myth since it cannot be scaled down from tractor to bicycle tyres, just like a model motor boat cannot create the foamy wake a larger boat can create and can therefore not be used for movie special effects.

Tyre direction has no effect on traction.

Tyre direction sometimes has an effect on noise. However, riding it enough quickly grinds down the noisy leading edge and you're back to a unidirectional tyre.

 

 

 

Firstly, the avatar is Brad, Headshok mascot. Lefty is a Headshok product.

Cannondale Headshok suspension is based around a square tube sliding in a round hole.

There are two product ranges; Fatty and Lefty. got it?

 

Weight distribution is easily measured. place bike on a scale and sit on the saddle with your hands on the bars. I have measured mine.

 

I have run tyres on both the recommended directions and in the opposite direction and noticed no difference in performance. At the end of the day the tread depth is providing the "grip" in conjunction with the size of the contact patch. weight distribution does not add "stability". You need to define your use of this word please.

 

Grip is friction with a vertical force also known as a friction force. Adhesion is a physical property that exists as a result of the interaction between two molecules. Adhesion only becomes a factor for grip is the coefficent between the rubber and the surface is greater than 1.

 

Since i have never heard of bicycle rubber being soft enough to behave as an adhesive so its safe to assume that it behaves in the friction zone which is less than 1.

from this it can be safely deduced that friction coefficient of the rubber is the driving force in grip + the surface area that is "paddling" the soil.

 

the direction those paddles face is irrelevant as long as the surface area is similar.

[Edition 507]

Ysterman, put your tyres on the right way around, it does make a difference and it is not a sales gimmick or ?smoke and mirrors? or ?voodoo?. Science and the laws of the universe apply to bikes as well. <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Tyre manufacturers put a little more effort into developing tread patterns than just coming up with cute pretty little shapes and then flipping a coin as to which way those cute pretty little shapes should rotate.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Tread patterns are designed to increase traction and reduce rolling resistance, so fitting them the wrong way will more than likely have the opposite effect of reducing traction and increasing rolling resistance. Take it back to your LBS to have the job done properly.

[Wyatt Earp]

  

Firstly' date=' the avatar is Brad, Headshok mascot. Lefty is a Headshok product.

Cannondale Headshok suspension is based around a square tube sliding in a round hole.

There are two product ranges; Fatty and Lefty. got it?

 

[/quote']

Thanks for the lesson, I did not know that, I have never seen the inside of one

For the Lefty they shove the SI designation under his chin, maybe I am just being anal, it won't be the first time.

It's actually a round tube with four sides that have been machined with a flat surface per side, each one of the four flat surfaces hosts a metal slider then a set of needle bearings with another metal slider sandwiching the needle bearings, these get held together by a retainer clip.

Pretty much the same way the Egyptians used to transport those massive blocks of stone by using logs.

Let's see how big a fan you are, I have a question.

Which well known road cyclist used to race for Cannondale and made it to his  first olympics as a mountainbiker in the first olympic MTB race ?

Secondly you must have a beeeeeeg scale

Thirdly, weight is a big factor in keeping things stable, ever tried to fly a radio control plane with the nose hanging down or one wing heavier than the other, yes it's balance and if the balance is not equal we have stability issues.

The word stability or stable can be found in any old dictionary nowadays

Your adhesion theory also does not apply, try again.

Summit Cycles2008-10-01 21:32:28

[Wyatt Earp]

Ysterman' date=' put your tyres on the right way around, it does make a difference and it is not a sales gimmick or ?smoke and mirrors? or ?voodoo?. Science and the laws of the universe apply to bikes as well. <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Tyre manufacturers put a little more effort into developing tread patterns than just coming up with cute pretty little shapes and then flipping a coin as to which way those cute pretty little shapes should rotate.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Tread patterns are designed to increase traction and reduce rolling resistance, so fitting them the wrong way will more than likely have the opposite effect of reducing traction and increasing rolling resistance. Take it back to your LBS to have the job done properly.

[/quote']

Now that's a fact.

Well done Carbonboy

 

That is exactly what I was trying to suggest in my first post.

[dirtrider]

Ok now to pick a side ...... I think I will go with the "put the tyre the right way around " group . I know it is very difficult to believe this but like Summit said a lot of reseach goes into putting those stupid patterns on ur bike . If Goodyear say a tyre is good in mud then there is a good reason for that ? Anyway I like putting my tyres the wrong way around cause as you may know by now I don't listen to the people in white coats and I just like the extra noise that it makes .

[Underachiever]

I've read this thread with interest and being an engineer I also do not believe that the way you put on a tyre makes a difference.  Hey, but the placebo effect is superstrong!!

 

Having said that, I also do product development for a living and it is my duty to assist our marketers to put claims on our products and to substantiate those claims if challenged throught the ASA.  And yes, like we all know, marketing can be very much "smoke and mirrors".

 

You want real proof.  Complain to the ASA (against the tyre manufacture that irritates you most), and then they need to bring evidence to the ASA to substantiate their claim.  This normally requires independent 3rd party testing results, or if R&D is done in house, the results needs to be backed up by some powerful statistical methods. If they can't substantiate, they need to pull the claim.  

[dirtrider]

And we all know where marketing and reseach got us ???

 

[Underachiever]

 

 

DR,  now that is real  SMOKE and mirrors!!!

[AndreZA]

My new Mountain kings also have direction arrows on them. One says this way if used on the front and the the other this way if used on the back. Or something like this way for speed and this way for traction. I put both on for speed. If this is correct, then I do not see the point in putting the front on for speed and the rear for traction. The traction tyre will slow you down so rather put both on the same way.

 

 

[Ysterman]

Howzit Dudes,<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

Many thanks for all your advice and opinions    I thought there was a simple and logical explanation to my question, but maybe not ...  and that's also cool !

 

But this was not supposed to end in another possible mini forum war ? life?s too short for that ? let?s rather go melt some knobblies on dirt and consider this thread closed  

[markStockton]

 

We are both clearly better off without each other.

 

Feel the love, Dude.

 

[dirtrider]

Melt Nobblies on tar ? You are looking for a war it seems !!!!

[scotty]

Nice thread, more like the Hub i'm used to

[Tumbleweed]

Mud expelling is 90% myth since it cannot be scaled down from tractor to bicycle tyres' date=' just like a model motor boat cannot create the foamy wake a larger boat can create and can therefore not be used for movie special effects.

[/quote']

ha! that's where i have to disagree. ask the hubbers who joined us at groenies about the wake i caused that day. 

[nochain]

So if you do have the option like with GEAX mezcals,speed or grip.Should you go with more grip on the front and speed at the back?

 

Or using a combination of tyres,like maxxis monorail and crossmark,would you then put the monorail at the front?

 

I am asking becuase I fitted the Geax tyres for speed at the front and grip at the back and with my very first ride on them lost my front wheel at a very non technical section and ended up breaking my wrist!!!