SARA Posted December 13, 2006 Share I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. I've just found personally that if I do a very long race it's the arb, odd little muscles that tire first and hurt the most afterwards. That's all. Yes if one could train for 5 or 6 hours a day that would obviously give them a proper workout but if you don't have that many hours then couldn't some form of cross training be useful? I'm only asking because I am interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted December 13, 2006 Share I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. I've just found personally that if I do a very long race it's the arb' date=' odd little muscles that tire first and hurt the most afterwards. That's all. Yes if one could train for 5 or 6 hours a day that would obviously give them a proper workout but if you don't have that many hours then couldn't some form of cross training be useful? I'm only asking because I am interested.[/quote'] Hi Sara As Bruce has said, there is no harm and plenty of benefit in daily life to having a strong core - it certainly will not harm your cycling. If you do not have time to ride or train for 5-6 hours then it is probably fair to say that you will not race over 5-6 hours - if this is the case then the rides you do in training should train your supplementary muscles sufficiently for your racing. This topic always gets muddied - lets be very clear - what I am saying is that strength training will not improve endurance cycling performance, but it may make you more comfortable on the bike if you have a weakness in any one area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARA Posted December 13, 2006 Share BikeMax Hi. Since we are being so very polite.... Cool fair enough. One more question, since I'm pretty clueless especially with regard to road stuff. Again heard many opinions and am interested in yours. If you are aiming to race for 5-6 hours how often would you ride 5-6 hours in your training week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted December 13, 2006 Share In cycling most of your power are indirectly generated in the core. Cycling performance and power output is dictated by CV fitness and not muscle strength.Core strngth may reduce rider fatigue due to prolonged sitting on a bike in an aero position or similar but it will not improve power output. BM..you're taking my post out of context. Or let me rephrase, a stronger core will give you more strengh and slower fatigue in your primary muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedal on the downhills Posted December 13, 2006 Share in cycling most of your power is produced indirectly by the core?? There is a serious logic problem with that statement right there..To correctly phrase, most power is is produced directly by the quads. A stronger core will not reduce fatigue in the primary muscles per se!While it might have some appeal as an idea, where's the evidence to support this shaky premise?You'll have to show some evidence that supports this line of a stronger core will somehow change the recruitment of the primary muscles and so result in their fatiguing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted December 13, 2006 Share BM..you're taking my post out of context. Or let me rephrase' date=' a stronger core will give you more strengh and slower fatigue in your primary muscles.[/quote'] Agreed, but I'm not sure why cycling will not strengthen your core enough for the purpose of cycling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted December 13, 2006 Share 1. Stronger core gives you better stability on the bike, less swaying when you pedal = more power.2. Stronger core will stabilize your pelvis = More support for your prime movers = more power. 3. Weak core creates inbalance of prime movers = quicker fatigue. 4. A strong gives you a stronger centre of gravity = more controll over your bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted December 13, 2006 Share 1. Stronger core gives you better stability on the bike' date=' less swaying when you pedal = more power.2. Stronger core will stabilize your pelvis = More support for your prime movers = more power. 3. Weak core creates inbalance of prime movers = quicker fatigue. 4. A strong gives you a stronger centre of gravity = more controll over your bike.[/quote'] Muddy, I AGREE with these statements. What I can't work out is the argument that cycling does not improve your core - I beleive that it does, certainly enough for the purposes of cycling itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoh Posted December 13, 2006 Share 1. Stronger core gives you better stability on the bike' date=' less swaying when you pedal = more power.2. Stronger core will stabilize your pelvis = More support for your prime movers = more power. 3. Weak core creates inbalance of prime movers = quicker fatigue. 4. A strong gives you a stronger centre of gravity = more controll over your bike.[/quote'] more cycling will give you all of the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted December 13, 2006 Share Muddy' date=' I AGREE with these statements. What I can't work out is the argument that cycling does not improve your core - I beleive that it does, certainly enough for the purposes of cycling itself.[/quote'] So many of todays pro cyclist (ok overseas anyway) have discovered the magic of core strenghtning exercises. I'll agree that cycling does have a effect on your core but personally I believe that to improve/develop a muscle group to it full potential you must isolate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted December 13, 2006 Share Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike...The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling. I think some are missing the point of X training or training secondary muscles.IMO that is to try and prevent imbalances in muscle strength and condition which could lead to weakness, pain and injuries (especially as you get older). X training does not only mean increasing muscle strength but also developing overall fitness (flexibility, strength, endurance and cardiovascular ability).Obviously to achieve success or improve performance you need to train more sport specific (that is train for cycling by cycling), but what?s the point of becoming a superdupercardiovascularmachine if you cannot cycle PROPERLY due to a back injury / pain, caused by over developed hip flexors, quads or gluts and underdeveloped core/stabilizing/ other muscles ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted December 13, 2006 Share 1. Stronger core gives you better stability on the bike' date=' less swaying when you pedal = more power.2. Stronger core will stabilize your pelvis = More support for your prime movers = more power. 3. Weak core creates inbalance of prime movers = quicker fatigue. 4. A strong gives you a stronger centre of gravity = more controll over your bike.[/quote'] NO - power is not limited by muscular strength in endurance cycling.. Show me one study indicating improved power output as a direct result of core strength training ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted December 13, 2006 Share Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike... The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling. I think some are missing the point of X training or training secondary muscles.IMO that is to try and prevent imbalances in muscle strength and condition which could lead to weakness' date=' pain and injuries (especially as you get older). X training does not only mean increasing muscle strength but also developing overall fitness (flexibility, strength, endurance and cardiovascular ability).Obviously to achieve success or improve performance you need to train more sport specific (that is train for cycling by cycling), but what?s the point of becoming a superdupercardiovascularmachine if you cannot cycle PROPERLY due to a back injury / pain, caused by over developed hip flexors, quads or gluts and underdeveloped core/stabilizing/ other muscles ??[/quote'] No argument there..but let's not confuse that with improved cycling performance please...which was the OP's question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted December 13, 2006 Share BM - Will you be satisfied if I change 'power' to 'strenght' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARA Posted December 13, 2006 Share 1. Stronger core gives you better stability on the bike' date=' less swaying when you pedal = more power.2. Stronger core will stabilize your pelvis = More support for your prime movers = more power. 3. Weak core creates inbalance of prime movers = quicker fatigue. 4. A strong gives you a stronger centre of gravity = more controll over your bike.[/quote']NO - power is not limited by muscular strength in endurance cycling..Show me one study indicating improved power output as a direct result of core strength training ? --just because they haven't proved it doesn't mean it isnt true. If there is one thing I have learnt in science this is it. So now someone has to do the science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted December 13, 2006 Share BM - Will you be satisfied if I change 'power' to 'strenght' ? Yes..as long as you don;t then try and advocate that more strength = better power output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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