BikeMax Posted January 10, 2007 Share Bike Max.. Those 3 x 20min rides at brisk pace' date=' will it be good to do that (lets say) Klapmuts to Wellington..with a 5min break at easy pace in between. Maybe get to W'Ton and ride the pass easy and when coming back do the 90min quite hard? Does it matter in what gear, (big blade, med but high cadence etc) I don't now anything about powertap training or these new words. Tell me the gear +-ratio 53x 13 etc. thanks[/quote'] That would work just fine - the main thing is to get the right intensity for the 20 mins. You can rest for 5-10 mins in between with no problem. Maybe you could incorporate on of the intervals into the pass ? Ride back at tempo pace for the 90 mins - say ~75-80% Any gear you like as long as the intensity is right - what gear you choose should be the one that you find it easiest to get the intensity right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff Posted January 10, 2007 Share I can try convince them to change their minds. I trained Tokai a few times before my first Epic. I have a nice route that goes up to the mast, down and along the contour path to the Silvermine loop, then down Ou Kaapse weg via the old wagon trail, turn at the bottom and go back up again and back to Tokai for scones and coffee. From what I can remember, it's 1650m of climbing and takes around 5.5 hrs. Can't remember the distance but it's irrelevant anyway... time in the saddle hey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtrider Posted January 10, 2007 Share Ek doen ook al my ryery op die MTB , maar het gister die lelike fiets vir spin op kyalami gevat en hier na 6 rontes was my allie baie seer gewees . Sal maat MTB saal op die anner fiets moet sit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted January 10, 2007 Share Just finished with base' date=' and now 3 league races in January, a bit soon. What now? Maybe use the races as intervals, hill climb training?[/quote'] Exactly that - just go as hard as you can and do plenty of work (and make sure I am on your wheel) Great training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted January 10, 2007 Share MW..Ek was op die D/C laas op my roadbike, ry net mtb met knoblies tyres. Bikemax..Thanks a lot Grootlem..Gaan jy nou weer die epic doen? het gedog jy gaan nie. Buff..Dit klink 'n beter ride as (alweer) 4 passes, kannie meer helhoogte van die agterkant vat, ek crack elke keer om daai paadtjie by pniel te tackle..Dan klink daai scones en coffee nog lekker ook. Jy maak 'n plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted January 10, 2007 Share Strange, i find it better to do the Epic training on the roadbike as i refuse to ride my MTB on the tar, costs too much in tyres. so if one rides offroad i have found that it appears as if you rest too much. I seem to grind up a hill for 45mins to an hour and then try to recover on the flats then rest on the downhills as I cant peadal any faster than I am already going. Riding road seems to allow me to ride with a more consistent power output. Let me know if there is anyone out there that has experienced the same or am I just special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted January 10, 2007 Share Dic.. You sit different on your road bike, come epic time.. how are you ging to handle the new position with a camelback on your back? When do you do thoose "small blade" spin for mad training if you only train on tar.. Believe me, when you hit Groenlandberg, its small blade with biggest at the back, your knees hit your chin 3 times per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted January 10, 2007 Share I am redundant Bruce has it right IMO - for Epic you need to focus on endurance for obvious reasons but I would say as importantly' date=' the ability to ride faster for long periods whci is determined by power at threshold - trained as Bruce says.[/quote'] Sign of a good teacher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narra Posted January 10, 2007 Share That would work just fine - the main thing is to get the right intensity for the 20 mins. You can rest for 5-10 mins in between with no problem. Maybe you could incorporate on of the intervals into the pass ? Ride back at tempo pace for the 90 mins - say ~75-80% Any gear you like as long as the intensity is right - what gear you choose should be the one that you find it easiest to get the intensity right in. BikeMax, so your tempo pace is about ~75-80% heart rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted January 10, 2007 Share That would work just fine - the main thing is to get the right intensity for the 20 mins. You can rest for 5-10 mins in between with no problem. Maybe you could incorporate on of the intervals into the pass ? Ride back at tempo pace for the 90 mins - say ~75-80% Any gear you like as long as the intensity is right - what gear you choose should be the one that you find it easiest to get the intensity right in. BikeMax' date=' so your tempo pace is about ~75-80% heart rate?[/quote'] Tempo ranges form moderate at ~75% to hard @ ~80-85% - just a guide. It should require full concentration and is not conversational pace.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakkies Sport Fotos Posted January 10, 2007 Share Bikemax.. What is the "negative" if you train to much in the red zone (90% +)? Not talking about climbing, because HR is high, but general training on undulating etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted January 10, 2007 Share Bikemax.. What is the "negative" if you train to much in the red zone (90% +)? Not talking about climbing' date=' because HR is high, but general training on undulating etc [/quote'] The negative is that it reduces the amount of volume you can do as the intensity and residual fatigue from the rides are higher. The concept of Sweet Spot training is based on max return for time invested - by training at tempo and threshold pace, the fitness benefits are good andf the ability to do highish volumes is also good - therefore it is the perfect range for an Epic rider to be in - all endurance will see you great at riding slowly whereas if you work in L3/L4 (tempo/Threshold) then you can expect to get faster week in/week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted January 10, 2007 Share BikeMax, What sort of volumes are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted January 10, 2007 Share BikeMax' date=' What sort of volumes are you talking about?[/quote'] Well, how long is a piece of string .. The main point is that the volume is greater than you could do if you were focusing on higher intensity training. With the clients we coach, they might, for example, be able to tolerate 8-10 hours of training per week if we include high intensity pre race training such as L5 and L6 intervals, whereas when we are trying to build fitness and FTP in the off season, they might be able to tolerate up to say 15 hours of Sweet Spot Training and get good gains in threhsold power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted January 10, 2007 Share BikeMax' date=' What sort of volumes are you talking about?[/quote'] The volume you can tolerate is dependent on the volume you have done in the past. Floyd Landis made a comment once which actually has a lot of truth in it. He reckons there is no such thing as overtraining it's actually undertraining because you haven't done enough volume previously to be able to handle the volume you are doing! The concept of Chronic Training Load (CTL) and CTL ramp rate, i.e. how fast you are accumulating training load helps you understand this issue. The principle of progressive overload says that whatever you were able to do last week, you should be able to do a little bit more this week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky DQ Posted January 11, 2007 Share Dic.. You sit different on your road bike' date=' come epic time.. how are you ging to handle the new position with a camelback on your back? When do you do thoose "small blade" spin for mad training if you only train on tar.. Believe me, when you hit Groenlandberg, its small blade with biggest at the back, your knees hit your chin 3 times per second.[/quote'] Hey Popeye, Last year I did most of my training for the epic on my MTB and yes the position was different, which is a problem. Remember no matter how much you think you are training on your MTB the amount of time you spend gringing is way less than on a road bike. The result was that I hurt myself as the bike setup was "wrong". This year I am trying to get my MTB set up up exactly the same as my road bike. I am almost there. I will give you feedback after this Epic. Regarding Groenland, I did it last Saturday and I ca commet as follows: This year's route is way easyier than last year and no I was not able to SPIN up the hill. In fact I ran out of gears a few times try ing to keep my cadence around 85. "Maybe I was tired" By the time you get to Groenland in the Epic you/I am only bearly able to keep the bike moving let alone "Mad Spinn" up the hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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