Apparently we deserve to be knocked over

[P Body]

 

Our reaction to the CarToday thread has done more harm than good.

I am busy trying to get sponsorship money out of motor manufacturers for cycle safety' date=' however, with the attitude flying backwards and forwards it's going to be tricky as they too keep abreast of these threads.

It is imperative that we understand this is not an 'us vs them' battle but rather a real problem that needs mature debate and solutions.

Come on guys, whether or not some petrol head insults you or worse yet, threatens you, maintain your pride and keep your nose clean.

 

[/quote']

 

I for one emailed CAR magazine today, cancelling my subscription. I still have four issues left. I told them that my cancellation was in protest of the comments on their messageboard that was allowed to be posted all day long without being moderated, thus these sentiments carries their blessing.

Gestapo strikes again. I am sure you have the facts now that the thread is deleted, people voice their opinion and this is how you react. I doubt that there was one comment that justified mowing a licra tigre down. As said in both threads respect from both sides is needed, guess what because of your actions you just generalised the whole cycling world as arrogant run to teacher brats in my eyes and probably in many of the people who was following that thread.

 

 

 

[jmaccelari]

 

Section 296:

296. (1) Any person driving a vehicle on a public road shall do so by driving

on the left side of the roadway and, where such roadway is of sufficient width, in such

manner as not to encroach on that half of the roadway to his or her right: Provided that

such encroachment shall be permissible--

 

 

1. where it can be done without obstructing or endangering other traffic or property which

   is or may be on such half and for a period and distance not longer than is necessary and

   prudent and provided that it is not prohibited by a road traffic sign; or

2. in compliance with a direction of a traffic officer or a road traffic sign.

 

(2) The provisions of subregulation (1) shall not apply in the case of a public road

which is restricted to traffic moving thereon in one direction only.

So if you ride a pedal cycle in the middle of the road you'll get nailed under section 296(1).

Section 311:

Riding on pedal cycles

 

311. (1) No person shall ride a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she

is seated astride on the saddle of such pedal cycle.

 

(2) Persons riding pedal cycles on a public road shall ride in single file except in

the course of overtaking another pedal cycle, and two or more persons riding pedal cycles

shall not overtake another vehicle at the same time.

 

(3) No person riding or seated on a pedal cycle on a public road shall take hold of any

other vehicle in motion.

 

(4) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall deliberately cause such pedal

cycle to swerve from side to side.

 

(5) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall carry thereon any person,

animal or object which obstructs his or her view or which prevents him or her from

exercising complete control over the movements of such pedal cycle.

 

(6) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall do so with at least one hand

on the handle-bars of such pedal cycle.

 

(7) Whenever a portion of a public road has been set aside for use by persons riding

pedal cycles, no person shall ride a pedal cycle on any other portion of such road.

 

(8) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road or a portion of a public road set

aside for use by persons riding pedal cycles, shall do so in such manner that all the

wheels of such pedal cycle are in contact with the surface of the road at all times.

So if you ride two or more abreast, you'll get nailed under Section 311(2).

 

[Daniel XTR]

Section 296:

296. (1) Any person driving a vehicle on a public road shall do so by driving on the left side of the roadway and' date=' where such roadway is of sufficient width, in such manner as not to encroach on that half of the roadway to his or her right: Provided that such encroachment shall be permissible--

where it can be done without obstructing or endangering other traffic or property which is or may be on such half and for a period and distance not longer than is necessary and prudent and provided that it is not prohibited by a road traffic sign; or

in compliance with a direction of a traffic officer or a road traffic sign.

(2) The provisions of subregulation (1) shall not apply in the case of a public road which is restricted to traffic moving thereon in one direction only.

So if you ride a pedal cycle in the middle of the road you'll get nailed under section 296(1).

Section 311:

Riding on pedal cycles

311. (1) No person shall ride a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she is seated astride on the saddle of such pedal cycle.

(2) Persons riding pedal cycles on a public road shall ride in single file except in the course of overtaking another pedal cycle, and two or more persons riding pedal cycles shall not overtake another vehicle at the same time.

(3) No person riding or seated on a pedal cycle on a public road shall take hold of any other vehicle in motion.

(4) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall deliberately cause such pedal cycle to swerve from side to side.

(5) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall carry thereon any person, animal or object which obstructs his or her view or which prevents him or her from exercising complete control over the movements of such pedal cycle.

(6) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall do so with at least one hand on the handle-bars of such pedal cycle.

(7) Whenever a portion of a public road has been set aside for use by persons riding pedal cycles, no person shall ride a pedal cycle on any other portion of such road.

(8) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road or a portion of a public road set aside for use by persons riding pedal cycles, shall do so in such manner that all the wheels of such pedal cycle are in contact with the surface of the road at all times.

So if you ride two or more abreast, you'll get nailed under Section 311 you'll be hit by a car and deserve it(2).
[/quote']

 

We all need to take care out the, obey the law and be safe, cartoday's comments were a scary reality of the image which some cyclists have painted the greater community with. I am annoyed with thier comments, but also realise we not always angels, however its no cause for some of their comments. 

 

Overall lets be safe, cos when its us vs the 18 wheeler, we aint gonna win, no matter how right we are

[jmaccelari]

 

Overall lets be safe' date=' cos when its us vs the 18 wheeler, we aint gonna win, no matter how right we are

[/quote']

I think that's the bottom line...

 

[MoreTrails]

After reading most of the threads today, this is the reason I don't ride on the road.

 

After being taken out 4 times, its now safer to ride with a large group - 35000 or so.

 

I do find it highly amuzing that the cartoday thread is, um not available and the fact that a couple of hubbers didn't even get registered!

 

All in all, consideration is the end result and the admin department should block some of "stuff" that was posted. Would have paid good money to see the tatters of the thread at cartoday.

 

SO, ride safe, play hard and learn to bunny hop...never know when it may be handy

 

[Guest Agteros]

[2 cents]

The current registration process on the Cartoday forum is their stock standard way of doing things, and has been like that since yonks!

 

Their thread has most probably been locked/hidden/deleted due to the inflammatory nature thereof (much like this one). The Cartoday website has a commercial, and accountability behind it hence the sensibility expressed in killing the topic.

 

The real question to ask is how much goodwill this whole issue has bought the bicycling community, even for those outside of the hub? Irrespective of rights, goodwill is what cyclists need, as we are the featherweights (70-100kg) punching in the heavy weight category (2000kg+). Sad but true...

 

Making accusations with a "I am right, and to H3LL with the rest" attitude is NOT the way to build bridges, especially as the expressed view here is that it is OK to transgress the law as long as in the opinion of the transgressor nobody is affected, or it goes unseen....

 

The LAW states that bicycles shall not cycle 2 abreast, except for the purposes of overtaking each other. This is an absolute, and not an option to entertain when it suits you. Irrespective of what rights cyclists assume, the law is the absolute, and anything else is just an invitation to trouble.

 

Before throwing stones, or point fingers at the other side, cyclists should firstly clean up their own act. Only after that will government be willing to listen to the cycling community as we will only then be credible. Currently we(as the collective) are acting exactly like a bunch of arrogant spoilt brats.

 

Our right to train on the road is not an absolute, but to be considerate towards other road users (from pedestrians to trucks) is required by law.

 

So, why not be the leaders in this safety issue, and like a real leader lead from the front i.s.o. point fingers, making accusations and inflammatory accusations like a bunch of loosers?

 

[/2 cents - US, Zim u pick]

[skelmpie]

Yeah and those same laws say we may not stand and pedal wtf! I think the laws need some serious rethinking. Also who is going to ride for hours single file not. It deprives us from a social privilege. It discludes us from the right to social interaction. Yes if the traffic is heavy or the road is narrow, ride single file at all time, but in other cases where its open and safe people just won't ride singe file. Thats a FACT.

Anyhow why is the whole argument about single file if all, but maybe a select few, accidents occurred when guys where riding behind each other on the left hand side. This leads me to believe accidents happen because of unaware/uninformed, negligent, drunk motorists or cyclist not visually identified.

[porky]

Well, one can really learn a lot on this site (Hub).

 

I had to step out and go see some clients in my murderous steel weapon, but before I left I gorged myself on McDonalds, drank a few brandy and cokes, admired my protruding paunch and stocked up on Camels for the ride.

 

Whilst driving there I took special care to ride the three cyclists and five runners I encountered off the road, I also ensured, I, along with the other "754 motorists spidy encountered" was speeding and weaving between lanes to justify my association as a "nitwit" motorist, oh, and I purposefully didnt lock my seat belt.!!

 

On my return journey, I first called Car Magazine and identified myself as a semi literate ****w*t, an enviromental  polluter and best of all an impatient lane hogging Imbecile!!

 

For good measure I also later resigned my job, cos somebody here felt driving was only for "fat polluters", and, as I cant visit clients in my suit in Bloem by bicycle (or even Sandton for that matter), I felt it was only just and I am now one with the cause.!

 

Good grief guys, go back and read some of those generalisations, they are ludicrous and inappropriate -  so, a few people made some comments on a motoring board about cyclists and suddenly ALL MOTORISTS are worse than the Taliban.!!

 

With intolerant ME,ME,ME, attitudes like this, its no wonder we are in the state we are, the country,the cyclists and the motorists.

 

porky2009-02-16 11:40:18

[Windbreaker]

 

 

 

 

Doesn't really matter if the cyclists are in single-file or not. What matters is if you attempt to murder them (and on occasion actually succeed) in proving you are right. Whoopee. You get to be right' date=' and some poor women gets to be a widow. Nice.

[/quote']

 

Ag please TNT.!!

 

Get with the programme, no driver gets in his or her car and says I will MURDER a cyclist today - stop been so melodramatic.!!

 

Porky, I take it that you heard about the Chris Atwood hit & run just before Xmas??? The f**ker that killed him had "buzzed" Skye and I MANY times on the quiet section of the road on the Cape Point side of Simonstown. I remember on one occasion screaming at Skye instinctively when I saw the bastard AIMING to get as close to her as he could. His face was burned into my memory.

 

When I heard about the Chris Atwood incident I phoned the investigating officer and described the f**ker right down to his spikey hair. After he handed himself in the inspector called me to confirm that it was him.

 

When he killed Chris Atwood he was drunk and his judgement was slightly

"off" on that occasion. I prefer to think that he misjudged the aim

rather than misjudging the consequences.

 

So while they may not go out to murder some of them really are intent on making it as uncomfortable as they can and some of them are just plain f**king ignorant as to the potential consequences.

 

Yesterday we spent the day with a family who lost their son a few years ago to the day. The day was made that much more difficult for them with the headlines of "Another cyclist dies"  staring at them. Yes, their son did stray outside of the yellow line as did I many times at the age of 14. Fortunately when I was

on my bicycle during my childhood there was still some level of care for fellow human beings. Reading the comments on the news24 articles as some of them on this forum I have to ask What has happened to us as a society??

 

And just for the record all of the cyclists killed in Cape Town in the last 4 years they were all riding within the yellow lane or well to the left when there was no yellow lane.  So lets not focus on red herrings. South Africans are inconsiderate in all regards but it comes to the fore most in the way we use the roads - simple as that.

Windbreaker2009-02-16 11:55:27

[porky]

A nice measured reply windbreaker, one which I am sorry to hear, especially the incident about Chris Atwood.   

 

Its sad, but I guess theres always the exception to the rule in all aspects of life.

 

For me and I like to think, most of the population, riding a cyclist / runner off the road is as alien as robbing a bank, its just not something we conciously think of doing or acting upon as rational, compassionate humans.

 

I dont know any cyclists personally who have been killed in accidents, but I did know a runner who was killed just down the road from me in Bedford view, the driver was drunk or high, I forget which, and took him out on a corner, injuring a few of his companions as well.

 

I am sorry it happened and I felt badly for his family as I sort of knew them from a few meets we attended, but, I refuse to allow the criminal act of one individual to cloud my view of the compassion of humanity in general.

 

 I run and ride, I spend an inordinate amount of time on the road and I honestly believe there are more motorists who will sooner stop and help than ride you down - maybe I am just an optomist or I live with my head in the sand, I dont know, but I believe in the inherant good in people, I really do, and I believe if we appeal to that good nature, they always respond likewise.!

 

     

[skelmpie]

You believe in the inherent good in people? That doesn't seem to show in any of your other posts, particularly the ones on doping!?

[cat-i]

 

 

I can't believe what I am reading on that Car website ... what a bunch of Nazis. There is so much hatred out there for cyclists. These guys need some input from a different perspective. Who else is going register and join the discussion?

 

hatred ... among the cyclists as well.

 

would it not help to try and be a little more tolerant?

 

i commute ... by mountainbike. because it is safer to stay out of the way of cars. because no matter who is wrong or right, the cyclist will not win if he angers the driver.

 

there's a lovely singletrackie that i like to take, but for that i have to cross some tar, turning right at a traffic light. last week someone in the turn-left-lane turned right. saw me, maybe didn't, i don't know. bottomline is, next time i get at that crossing, i'll get off the bike and walk straight over, wait for the other lane to switch, and walk straight over again.

that way, neither i nor the motorists get angry. i get to ride my singletrack and they don't get any bumps in the car from hitting my well-abused bike.

 

easy said, maybe, because i'ts on my way to work and i enjoy it - i don't do it for the training, so don't need to cover a certain distance in a certain time ...

 

i firmly believe that the solution is dedicated cycling lanes, but until we have it, i'll create my own, preferably out of harm's way.

 

 

cat-i2009-02-16 14:42:57

[Slowbee]

 

You believe in the inherent good in people? That doesn't seem to show in any of your other posts' date=' particularly the ones on doping!?

[/quote']

 

thats a bit on the thin side? Dopers cheat. Porky has made that clear, together with payment for said cheating.

 

There is a difference between believing people are inherently good and cheating. You cant say cheaters are not good people.

 

Even LA said so ! (refer to swissvan you tube post)

 

[Slowbee]

 

Listened to a chat on 567 about the cyclist/car debate. The main gripe that is within the control of us, the people on bikes, is to not simply adhere to the law, but do the right thing for our own safety (as stated by porky). TNT said, just because its the law, doesnt make the action right.

 

Dont expect others to change their actions before you are prepared to change your actions.

 

Just use common sense! How hard can it be ?

 

oh, wait, common sense, cycling .. one sentence.... oxymoron ?

 

 

 

Slowbee2009-02-16 14:36:24

[skelmpie]

I was referring those comments he made in the line of the whole peleton is on "juice".

 

Look at cat-i's measures to prevent motorists, surely we shouldn't be reduced to this kind of treatment nor evasive behavior, should we? Even forced to leave the road rather mtb instead, because of arrogant road users. This Bullsh*t has got to stop.

 

And as I made the point earlier the overwhelming majority of accidents didn't happen while a cyclist was doing something illegal nor stupid nor displaying actions of neglect to his own safety.

[cat-i]

skelmpie - i wasn't saying that i am 'reduced' to anything.

i just think my arriving at home in one piece is more important than being right or wrong. maybe the car saw me, maybe not - i'm not willing to risk it again, that's all.

 

and i can't change the motorists. i can change my route, and it's a small price to pay for arriving at work or at home safely.

 

there's a lovely cyclepath next to malibongwe en route to randburg high for kilometers ... ok, maybe it was a cyclepath in prehistoric time ... now it's a mountainbike-trail ... but more of those will certainly encourage more people to cycle to work - cos they can do it safely, cos they arrive at work with a grin on their faces, cos they saved time by combining the daily commute with their workout, cos they saved fuel and saved the planet ... but i'm hijacking this thread now

 

the point is - my life is worrth more than being right or wrong. this might be far more difficult for roadies out there training to achieve some or other goal, however ...