Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 we should also take into consideration that guilt and the circumstances under which illegal agreement (if any) have yet to be determined. Until then, it is considered good manners, as well as courteous, to reserve judgement.
jagwil Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 That is basically what I said on page 18. { Originally posted by The Hawk CTA retailer told me personally that they wanted to fix RRP's higher so that the retailer margins could increase putting pressure on wholesaler not to supply retailer giving "good deals"} This is purely hearsay and unless the "retailer" is prepared to give evidence in person before the C.C. it is worthless.
Montblanc Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Seems like AM was in a real hurry today to finish the Argus ... me thinks he couldnt waste any time because he had other meetings line up ..... with his co-price fixing conspirators and with his lawyers! well done AM Low blow Newlands!. Have the balls to contact AM "he is very approachable" and say what you have to say to his face instead of hiding behind your computer. I had feedback from him twice, i think he is a good guy!
Guest Michelle Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 what is important is that we should not loose sight of the fact that these guys... How do you know that the allegations that were made are "facts"?!?! Apparently the Hub has become judge, jury & executioner... forget about the CC's investigation.
Mats Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Back to basics guys<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The main reason (Goal) of a business is to make some profit. How they intend to spend it is personally up to them. What they do to make their target is also up to them. Having a bike shop is the same as any other business. About what happened at the meeting I wasn?t there so I won?t know? But if it was about something that will have a huge impact on my business I would also went to hear what they have to say. Keeping any business up and running involves a lot of different factors. And personally if I?m not making a profit anymore, I would need to increase my consulting rate. Most of us go to work everyday. Why?To earn some money and I?m not willing to work for FREE. Are you?
The Hawk CT Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 UOTE=Michelle] what is important is that we should not loose sight of the fact that these guys...How do you know that the allegations that were made are "facts"?!?! Apparently the Hub has become judge' date=' jury & executioner... forget about the CC's investigation. [/quote'] you are correct. some times one can carried away as cycling goods are so expensive. these allegations need to be proven first. we wish all those involved all the best and most of all the out come will be or should be for the better of cycling and the cycling industry
Guest colonel Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 The point that has stood out to me is that FP said that they have big mark ups cause winter is slow for business. To me that is not our problem, its like saying that a Personal Trainer must be paid double incase the client doesnt come back.
Delgado Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Back to basics guys<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The main reason (Goal) of a business is to make some profit. How they intend to spend it is personally up to them. What they do to make their target is also up to them. Having a bike shop is the same as any other business. About what happened at the meeting I wasn?t there so I won?t know? But if it was about something that will have a huge impact on my business I would also went to hear what they have to say. Keeping any business up and running involves a lot of different factors. And personally if I?m not making a profit anymore' date=' I would need to increase my consulting rate. Most of us go to work everyday. Why?To earn some money and I?m not willing to work for FREE. Are you?[/quote'] Agreed but one of those factors is certainly that you surely don't collude with your contemporaries to achieve those goals now do you??
GoLefty!! Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 what is important is that we should not loose sight of the fact that these guys... How do you know that the allegations that were made are "facts"?!?! Apparently the Hub has become judge' date=' jury & executioner... forget about the CC's investigation. [/quote'] since the Hub cannot hand down a verdict it is neither Judge, nor jury nor executioner. This is a discussion board. In this instance peopel are discussing the events around bicycle retailer gatherings that took place last year. A few cycle store owners in gauteng hav confirmed the intent of the meetings as does the document minuting the meeting. AM says otherwise. so its his word against the Competitions commision and the witnesses who I assume will come forward.dIn the mean time, people will form opinions as they did about every other incident involving either government, corporations or other. Thats why this is a discussion board. Some have made up their minds that the meeting was an attempt at cartel behaviour. That is illegal even if the cartel did not get off the ground. also, the Competitions Commision does not make announcements about investigations it intends to start up, it makes announcements about investigations that have already started and it think it can win. Do youthink that the Tiger brands invetigation was the only one they looked into? That would be naive. The fact that this is now in the public domain is post the fact. IMO this investigation has already started and they have the required evidence. Time will tell what verdict they hand out but I would be very very surprised if it was not a Guilty one
Brighter-Lights Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 It's very simple... In October/November 2008 the Rand lost about 30 to 40% of it's value... next thing 2009 prices goes up by 60% to 80%. Suddenly, there's a massisve increase in prices in bike shops and everybody 'blames' it on the weak Rand and material and supplier cost... while overseas prices stay the same... (All this time I've been monitoring prices on my fav online shops) The irony is that AMClean says they got together to blah blah and get in line with overseas trends... I've seen no major price increases anywhere overseas... I've been suspecting something fishy for a while now... The sudden price increases for 2009 just didn't make sense... How's it possible that buying from a country where everything already is on the expensive side, (UK for example) could still be cheaper than buying at your LBS...? (After VAT, Shipping and Duties...) (Talking ChainReactionCycles, JensonUSA, Comobike and eBay etc.) Hope the 'real' truth comes out and they they don't get a way to hide the truth... I want them to burn and everybody else who's been ripping me/us off... no mercy...
Mats Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Back to basics guys<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> The main reason (Goal) of a business is to make some profit. How they intend to spend it is personally up to them. What they do to make their target is also up to them. Having a bike shop is the same as any other business. About what happened at the meeting I wasn?t there so I won?t know? But if it was about something that will have a huge impact on my business I would also went to hear what they have to say. Keeping any business up and running involves a lot of different factors. And personally if I?m not making a profit anymore' date=' I would need to increase my consulting rate. Most of us go to work everyday. Why?To earn some money and I?m not willing to work for FREE. Are you?[/quote'] Agreed but one of those factors is certainly that you surely don't collude with your contemporaries to achieve those goals now do you?? As I said if it was a meeting that will have an impact on the type of business that you run. I would also have gone to the meeting. And until you have your own business you will not complete understand. Do you realise how many bike shops there are just in Gauteng. If you want to fix the price you would have to get all of them on board and all the suppliers. It is just something that will never realize. If the price is not right the customers will not buy your product. If you price to low. People will say the goods are stolen If the price is to high. People will simply use a different supplier.
GoLefty!! Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 well said B-L. CRC prics have remained constant, yet in SA prices have risen over 60% while the ZAR devalued by 32% against the US$. So where does the other 30-40% come from? Example, A RavX pump that cost R99.95 last is now R169.99, 70% increase in price. Does not take a genius to see that this does not account for devaluation + inflation.
Tumbleweed Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 It's very simple...? In October/November 2008 the Rand lost about 30 to 40% of it's value... next thing 2009 prices goes up by 60% to 80%. ? Suddenly' date=' there's a massisve increase in prices in bike shops and everybody 'blames' it on the weak Rand and material and supplier?cost... while overseas prices?stay the same... (All this time I've been monitoring prices on my fav online shops) ? The irony is that AMClean says they?got together to blah blah and get in line with overseas trends... I've seen no major price?increases?anywhere overseas... ? ? I've been suspecting something fishy for a while now...?The sudden price increases for 2009 just didn't make sense... ? How's it possible that buying from a country where everything already is on the?expensive side, (UK for example) could?still be cheaper than buying at your LBS...? (After VAT, Shipping and Duties...)? (Talking ChainReactionCycles, JensonUSA, Comobike and eBay etc.) ? Hope the 'real' truth comes out and they they don't get a way to hide the truth... I want them to burn and everybody else who's been ripping me/us off... no mercy... [/quote'] just to weigh in once more. you're only half right. last year i posted a link to a reuters piece which used as its focus the giant company. despite its market-leading capacity, and the increase in demand, its overheads (let's discount oil here because it's a fickle commodity at the moment), prices were expected to go up by the amounts you quote. factor in the fact that you have a local agent wirh small international buying power (ie, small percentage of giant's overall market - we are tiny) and the fact that crc purchases direct from shimano - not an agent - and the margin does seem more realistic. recesssions do that do smaller countries. yes, there are those taking the piss, but it's not as outlandish as it seems... holy roller2009-03-08 12:18:42
10Two Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Gosh - this is so boring !!! Nobody is forcing anybody to shop where things are "over-priced" I think that AM has done more for the sport in the past so many years than anybody else...for that reason - I will continue to support him.. As much as alot of you whinge bout AM / CycleLab (just look at the title of this thread - where is mention of any other person / company ???) - HE and HIS COMPANY SET THE STANDARDS IN SOUTH AFRICA !!!!! Grow up losers / whiners - and DO more than u TALK !!!! Everyone's an armchair Lance Armstrong it seems....
Copey Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 As much as I would like to agree with the previous statements, we can not dismiss the fact that there must be some foul play, however small it might be. Let me explain my point of view. For those who want to price fix, would have to have the big players on board (not to mention any names) but lets be honest how could one price fix when you only command a small percentage of the market? You would have to get the big boys involved to help price fix, these guys (the big boys) are already offering products at the best possible price given the current economic situation world wide and yet we still seem to think that a small portion of the guys (Andrew and friends) are price fixing, I think not. Step back and think about those who are purchasing through these ?price fixers? I would suggest you do your homework and check the other stores and more so the ONLINE stores to make a comparison. Then judge. In my studied option I personally think online stores give us the consumer the best all-round supply of products and pricing we are looking for.
butafly Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Gosh - this is so boring !!! Nobody is forcing anybody to shop where things are "over-priced" you are so right. I think that AM has done more for the sport in the past so many years than anybody else. please supply details' date=' i'm a bit in the dark about this ...for that reason - I will continue to support him.. As much as alot of you whinge bout AM / CycleLab (just look at the title of this thread - where is mention of any other person / company ???) - HE and HIS COMPANY SET THE STANDARDS IN SOUTH AFRICA !!!!! Grow up losers / whiners - and DO more than u TALK !!!! Everyone's an armchair Lance Armstrong it seems....[/quote']
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