Johan Bornman Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Tell me Johan OT question: Are you from German descent? I have no idea. I'll go to the Origins Centre at Wits one day and find out. Legend has it though that three Bornman brothers arrived in the Cape shortly after Jan van Riebeeck discovered that there's less crime there than in Liberia. Upon embarking from the ship (in those days there was no jetty and slaves carried the passengers through the waves onto the beach), one brother drowned. Of the two that made it, one was a homosexual and never procreated and the other one ran into the interior in the direction of Gauteng (called the Witwatersrand in those days) with a Koi woman he fell in love with. I have no idea which of the three I'm a descendant of.
_Daemon_ Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 JB - The right lube applied in the incorrect manner can be useless - if you look @ White Lightning and Rock & Roll and all the stuff that you dont like to use... Stop beating about the bush. What is the "incorrect manner". Lathering it all over the place like you do with the oil you love so much. Thank you' date=' now we can get down to brass tacks. The original statement was that successful lubrication has more to do with the method of application than what you use. Successful lubrication in my book is the maximum reduction of friction using a specific product. Now, whether I lather it on, as you suggest, or put a drop on every second link (as I do), you'll get the same level of lubrication - both successfull, and in contradiction of the original statement. Further, oil for bikes is sold in a little bottle with a dropper, not in a can with a paintbrush. What is so difficult to deduce from that? [/quote'] Is this why you never get good results in MTB races..... cos when you stop youtake like 40mins just to lube every second link....... HAHAH, no wait for it, there will be some "scientific" BS reasoning behind his race results...
Underachiever Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 The problems with lubes is that we expect miracles and the manufacturers and their marketing spin doctors sieze this opportunity and feed us the BS that we lap up in a crazed frenzy. Exactly what I have always thoughtI use leftover car oil (from oil changes' date=' the clean stuff) and I can say that it is no worse than the R60 a bottle you pay for in a bike shop. It is no better either though.[/quote'] I really think the best lube is the one you firmly believe is the best. I have (for the past 8 years) used a very thin lube for both road and MTB. On occasion I have been in the position where I ran out of my preferred lube and no chance of getting any before the next morning's race. Simply used ordinary Castrol household oil (R 6.50 for 125 mL at the local Co-op). Worked fine. For me the bottom line is cleaning the chain and drivetrain regularly (and thoroughly). I'd quote kms achieved per chain and casette for road and MTB but I'm worried that Johan will tell me that it's all anecdotal and lacks factual proof... Seems that my evidence was accepted by JB and I feel on top of the world now. Give it a try Homie, you might be lucky
Johan Bornman Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 [quote=HomerSimpson Cut cut cut cut For me the bottom line is cleaning the chain and drivetrain regularly (and thoroughly). I'd quote kms achieved per chain and casette for road and MTB but I'm worried that Johan will tell me that it's all anecdotal and lacks factual proof... Homer, if there is one guy's data I'll trust it is yours. I'd love to see it and get a perspective on the two sets of data already on this thread.
Gert Janse v Rensburg Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 JB - The right lube applied in the incorrect manner can be useless - if you look @ White Lightning and Rock & Roll and all the stuff that you dont like to use... Stop beating about the bush. What is the "incorrect manner". Lathering it all over the place like you do with the oil you love so much. Thank you' date=' now we can get down to brass tacks. The original statement was that successful lubrication has more to do with the method of application than what you use. Successful lubrication in my book is the maximum reduction of friction using a specific product. Now, whether I lather it on, as you suggest, or put a drop on every second link (as I do), you'll get the same level of lubrication - both successfull, and in contradiction of the original statement. Further, oil for bikes is sold in a little bottle with a dropper, not in a can with a paintbrush. What is so difficult to deduce from that? [/quote'] Is this why you never get good results in MTB races..... cos when you stop youtake like 40mins just to lube every second link....... HAHAH, no wait for it, there will be some "scientific" BS reasoning behind his race results... Does he even do Races.......
Danger Dassie Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I still use trusty ol Wynflo, blue bottle with silver and red logo.Works perfectly fine for me in all conditions, I use it periodicaly in conjunction with Squirt, which I use more on a more regular basis. Wether or not this makes any real difference is debatable, but it works for me. My only real complaint is that the Wynflo comes in an aerosol can.
Johan Bornman Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Experiment to test the notion that Squirt becomes difficult to apply under cold conditions due to it becoming more viscous to a point where it hampers flow of the product. Equipment: 1 small dropper bottle of Squirt.1 Glass thermometer, graduated in 1 degree Celcius with minimum indicated temperature of -10 degrees.I domestic freezer, white. Method:1) Determine the relative viscosity of the Squirt at room temperature by vigorously shaking the bottle and observing the splashing sound inside. 2) Applying the substance to a piece of bicycle chain and observing whether it works its way inside by calilary action, aided by manipulating the chain.3) Placing the Squirt and thermometer inside the freezer and wait 20 minutes.4) Remove Squirt and observe the temperature. It is less than -10 degrees and off the scale.5) Attempt to squeeze Squirt out of bottle onto chain. Bottle appears hard and frozen solid.6) Shake bottle. Observe that liquid inside freely shakes and makes splashing sounds. Puzzled expression.7) Open bottle and shake out Squirt. It moves freely. Apply to chain (unfortunately at ambient temperature since I forgot to freeze it as well). Observe that Squirt settles exactly as before, sucked in by capillary action when chain is manipulated.8) Observe that plastic bottle is frozen hard but still liquid Conclusion:There is no noticeable change in the visvosity of Squirt at an ambient temperature of 21 degrees and -10 degrees after 30 minutes of exposure. EDIT: Observation two hours after experiment started. Squirt has now solidified at what is an estimated -12 degrees Celcius.Squirt now goes into the fridge which is at 4 degrees. Lets see what happens. Johan Bornman2009-03-11 03:29:09
HomerSimpson Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Cut cut cut cut For me the bottom line is cleaning the chain and drivetrain regularly (and thoroughly). I'd quote kms achieved per chain and casette for road and MTB but I'm worried that Johan will tell me that it's all anecdotal and lacks factual proof... Homer' date=' if there is one guy's data I'll trust it is yours. I'd love to see it and get a perspective on the two sets of data already on this thread. [/quote'] Ok I'll go make some up....I mean I'll go dig it up...Seriously though, I just need to check distances again: Have three test subjects in the house, total of 6 bikes (3 road and 3 MTB).HomerSimpson2009-03-11 02:04:22
Underachiever Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Tell me Johan OT question: Are you from German descent? I have no idea. I'll go to the Origins Centre at Wits one day and find out. Legend has it though that three Bornman brothers arrived in the Cape shortly after Jan van Riebeeck discovered that there's less crime there than in Liberia. Upon embarking from the ship (in those days there was no jetty and slaves carried the passengers through the waves onto the beach)' date=' one brother drowned. Of the two that made it, one was a homosexual and never procreated and the other one ran into the interior in the direction of Gauteng (called the Witwatersrand in those days) with a Koi woman he fell in love with. I have no idea which of the three I'm a descendant of. [/quote'] I think Jan's discovery was flawed though.
HomerSimpson Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 OK here goes:Self: Roadbike 1 (Giant OCR3 but with Tiagra, not Sora)Chain 1: 10 700 km Chain 2: 8 000 km when the bike was sold on (still the original casette)Roadbike 2 (CAAD5 with 105): Done just over 4000 km. Original chain and casette.Self MTB (Scott Scale 70)Chain 1: 5 500 km Casette 1: 5 513 km (LX, changed the chain and then realised I'd have to change the casette as well, hence the 13 extra km. The 13 km is accurate, the other distances are reasonably so)Subject 2 Roadbike (sora equipped)Chain 1: Just over 9 000 kmCasette 1: 13 000 km and still going strong (from which you can gather that Chain 2 has done about 4 000 km)Subject 2: MTB (Scott Reflex 30)Chain and casette have both done about 2 000km to date.Subject 3 Roadbike (Tiagra)35 000 km shared between 3 casettes (original 12-25, junior gears and new casette 11-23 with new(ish) wheelset. All three casettes still appear OK (no chain slipping or gear changing issues).Chains: Fourth chain in use now. Don't have the exact km data for the previous chains, but changes were pretty regular, so I would guess about 8 000 - 9 000 km per chain. Chain wear on the last chain is acceptable (checked the night before the Argus)Subject 3: MTB Chain 1 and casette 1 lasted just shy of 4 000 km, BUT they were victims of a snapped rear der that then became intimately involved with said casette and chain (2007 Knysna MTB)Chain 2 and casette 2 have been in use since the above incident. Most of the above indicates that by and large we (as a family) get around 9 000 km per roadbike chain, and I certainly expect at least double that per casette. For MTB it appears (from early data) that riding a MTB in the Cape will limit casette and chain life to about 5 000 km
Shebeen Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Most of the above indicates that by and large we (as a family) get around 9 000 km per roadbike chain' date=' and I certainly expect at least double that per casette. For MTB it appears (from early data) that riding a MTB in the Cape will limit casette and chain life to about 5 000 km[/quote'] That's awesome record keeping. do you have a logbook for each bike?
Shebeen Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 oh, a self confessed lube guru told me to say this: Lube properties for a bicycle are mostly a load of baloney.All of the lubes on the market provide lubrication adequately.The only benefit wax lubes have over liquid lubes is that they areeasier to clean off the chainBuy what's available.
Johan Bornman Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 OK here goes: Self: Roadbike 1 (Giant OCR3 but with Tiagra' date=' not Sora)Chain 1: 10 700 km Chain 2: 8 000 km when the bike was sold on (still the original casette)Roadbike 2 (CAAD5 with 105): Done just over 4000 km. Original chain and casette.Self Cut cut cut cut[/quote'] Homer, how did you measure your chains and at what point did you decide to change them? Same questions for the other person that posted some data here. I'm on Reply view now and can't recall who it was. Did you guys keep a logbook of sorts and did you also keep data such as tyre life etc in there?
HomerSimpson Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 Johan, I do the original check with a cheap chain wear tool, then if this starts indicating that some wear is present, I use the wooden ruler (I inherited a sturdy foldable 48-inch ruler from my dad's woodworking toolkit). If both these inidcate that the chain should be changed I do so. I do not keep a log book, but I do keep spares for each bike that I service. I always keep the chains (I pack them in the box the new chain comes in with a notation of the kms done, this is a rough distance, as not all rides are recorded, and time on the indoor trainer are also not considered). My rationale behind keeping the chains is that I want a spare if I am suddenly caught short (say before a race). I am also a compulsive pack-rat.I once tried to keep a record of tire wear, but I gave up, as too many tires were prematurely retired after getting sliced by glass or metal.
Underachiever Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 JB I keep a religious log of all my chains, tyre life, etc. on an Excel spreadsheet - for chains & tyre life I have 5 year's of data and reasons why they (tyres) were changed. Chain life - first estimate was expertise from the LBS when to change, the rest all my experience. Yes I am an engineer and love analysing data. For my hardtail MTB, I am on the 5th chain (all LX) and is still using the original cassette (Deore) (mind you the 15 sprocket is a tad worn since I did a lot of on road training for the Epic. Takes about 130 km for a new chain to wear in and then I have full use of this sprocket. (perhaps that 3rd chain with > 3000 km did the damage) See below: See that some of the Excel detail were not copied. Bike History - GiantsTCR Composite Road (2004) Talon MTB (2007) Anthem MTB (2007)Total Distance (km)25142 11729 1877Yearly Distance (km)161% 165855% 133444% Chain Life Tracking (km)First4808 First20711832Second4916 Second2332121Third4811 Third3380Fourth5085 Fourth1360Fifth4597 Fifth2586Sixth925 SixthSeventh Seventh Wheelset Tracking (km)Ksyrium2275 Sun Rims11729Eurus4043 XT1334Vento18824 Tyre Tracking (km)Training TrainingContinental3390 MTB (Front)Schwalbe 12888 Hutchinson3701Schwalbe 25072 Continental8028Schwalbe 32997 Schwalbe 44615 Schwalbe 52727 Schwalbe 6132 MTB (Back)Rotation Hutchinson3701 Continental1211 Continental1252 Continental2943 Continental2622 Racing RacingVredestein2275 MTB (Front)Michelin2684 Continental1213Hutchinson1359 Maxxis121 MTB (Back) Continental1213 Maxxis121
bustthesickness Posted March 11, 2009 Posted March 11, 2009 I used Squirt exclusively at this years sani2C. We had dry district roads' date=' Wet slippery singletrack. Extremely thick mud caked onto tires and throughout drive train. River crossings and then some more dry roads. It was baking hot. All I did was reapply squirt after the river crossings sometimes. In three days I had one tight link, manipulated and lubed at the Nando's stop. Free'd it up nicely. I never missed a shift and my drivetrain is still in pretty good nick. [/quote']Try to avoid swallowing river water in future as this will usually happen
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