Fritz Pienaar denies uncompetitive behaviour

[AndreZA]

Like the rest of the retail sector is competitive...my @$$. You go for example to Game' date=' Dion , R5 difference on a R3000.00 appliance. Uhhh, so competitive. And later, no more Dion, so all they probably did was , registered under one company, made the prices the same. ?Now theres a coompetition commission.... oh please! Like furniture, go to Joshua Doores site and see how many other furniture shops are in a cartel ,(legal one) with them.[/quote']

 

 

 

This is JD Group

 

 

 

http://www.sharedata.co.za/data/001286/jdgroup_brands_b09.jpg

 

 

 

.

[Jules]

Yes, Cervelo doesn't seem to realise that Game and Dion are part of Massmart. And JD group owns a number of furniture retailers.

[pastapouch]

Yes' date=' Cervelo doesn't seem to realise that Game and Dion are part of Massmart. And JD group owns a number of furniture retailers. [/quote']

 

naah, I thought they were but wasn't 100% sure, so I didn't  state it.

[Jules]

So to you still allege there is a cartel among furniture and other retailers? I think Ellerines/Abil, JD Group and Lewis might disagree. They are struggling even more than bike shops at the moment.

[wpdeb]

Jules, seeing that you are so well versed in all aspects of life and seem to be a specialist on every field, I beg you my master, teach me

Humbly yours

[Barend de Arend]

 

Like the rest of the retail sector is competitive...my @$$. You go for example to Game' date=' Dion , R5 difference on a R3000.00 appliance. Uhhh, so competitive. And later, no more Dion, so all they probably did was , registered under one company, made the prices the same.

[/quote']

 

You forgot Makro.

 

 

Now theres a coompetition commission.... oh please! Like furniture' date=' go to Joshua Doores site and see how many other furniture shops are in a cartel ,(legal one) with them.[/quote']

 

It helps to know who's who.  That's not a cartel.  That's marketing. (same company, different brands.)

 

btw, that does actually go through the competition commission.  They have to give approval before Joshua Door can buy yet another furniture retail chain.  Some deals have been denied in the past (notably when they wanted to buy Ellerines.)

 

It's the same in other markets.  Ford == mazda == volvo == ...  Toyota owns Daihatsu, Lexus and Subaru, and have several deals with Peugoet and Citroen.

 

You wanna know which clothing stores belong to Edgars?

 

 

[BendeBeer]

From: Fritz Pienaar [mailto:mm@firebreak.co.za]
Sent: 17 September 2008 12:27 PM
Subject: Minutes - margins in the bicycling industry



Dear bicycle wholesaler and retailer,

Thank you for your support and great response in making our industry more healthy.

For those of you who were unaware of this meeting here is a quick refresher: "I am sure that most of you are aware that there are a lot of concerns in the retail bicycle industry. There is a lot of rumours about retail shops that are struggling and wholesalers that are not getting paid. This causes a lot of problems for everyone in the industry and I?m sure that you would agree that it is not a healthy position to be in.

I have had numerous meetings with retail shops and wholesalers over the last couple of months and everyone seems to agree that the retail shops are not making enough profit and that something needs to be done about it. The bicycle wholesalers agree that a healthier retail industry would also allow for a healthier wholesale industry."

We've had a great response from the meeting on 10th September 2008! With all the mayor bicycle wholesalers and retailers in Gauteng, we've all come to agreement that raising the margins is the resolution to the problem.

It is of utmost importance that we sign-up and state that you support this decision, we need everyone?s support to be able to make this change and to be able to implement these changes right away.

Click here to see the attendance of the meeting on 10th September 2008

Click here to see the meeting on 10th September 2008 minutes

Please click here, to state if you are supportive of higher margins in the Bicycling Retail sector
(We recommend that you read the minutes if you were not present at the meeting)

Regards,

Fritz Pienaar
<?: PREFIX = SKYPE />083 275 2123

PS. Please forward this to all bike shops you know of, or wholesalers that did not attend.

 

[GoLefty!!]

Like the rest of the retail sector is competitive...my @$$. You go for example to Game' date=' Dion , R5 difference on a R3000.00 appliance. Uhhh, so competitive. And later, no more Dion, so all they probably did was , registered under one company, made the prices the same.
[/quote']

You forgot Makro.

Now theres a coompetition commission.... oh please! Like furniture' date=' go to Joshua Doores site and see how many other furniture shops are in a cartel ,(legal one) with them.[/quote']

It helps to know who's who.  That's not a cartel.  That's marketing. (same company, different brands.)

btw, that does actually go through the competition commission.  They have to give approval before Joshua Door can buy yet another furniture retail chain.  Some deals have been denied in the past (notably when they wanted to buy Ellerines.)

It's the same in other markets.  Ford == mazda == volvo == ...  Toyota owns Daihatsu, Lexus and Subaru, and have several deals with Peugoet and Citroen.

You wanna know which clothing stores belong to Edgars?

 

 

Toyota does NOT own Subaru. Subaru is a subsidriary of Fuji Heavy Industries, a competitor to Toyota.

Fuji in fact makes components for Toyota and welding machines for their production lines.

 

Peugeot and Citroen are part of PSA, ie owned by the same holding company.

So Peugeot and Citroen pricing strategy is decided by PSA.PSA does not chat to Subaru about where to pitch it's vehicle pricing.

 

Similarly, if the furniture stores are owned by one holdoing company then that would be a monopoly. There are different laws that governed the behaviour of a monopoly in the market place.

 

Toyota and Subaru siting down together with PSA to decide that they need to make more money is anti competitive and therefore illegal.

 

A company cannot however be anti competitive with itself...

[porky]

Jules' date=' seeing that you are so well versed in all aspects of life and seem to be a specialist on every field, I beg you my master, teach me

Humbly yours

[/quote']

 

Really wpdeb, your posts are juvenile and have not made a single point.

 

Make your point instead of posting sarcastic and infantile remarks about others.

 

If FP and AM felt they needed higher margins, they should have done what every other ethical businessman dos - take a ticker machine walk around your shop and increase prices - INDEPENDANTLY.

 

.........but No, they decided if they do this, customers will shop elsewhere because they would be percieved as too expensive, so to save their own butts, they decided to become spokesmen for the cycle industry and call a meeting to UNILATERALLY INCREASE prices ACROSS the board by stated amounts - by doing this, they can increase their own margins and the customer cant go elsewhere and get it cheaper - the intent here my friend, is PRICE SETTING/ FIXING - and its illegal.

 

I dont care whats going on in the cycling industry, every businessman needs to take responsibility for his or her actions, if I decide to cut costs here and there in a construction project and a malls roof falls down - am I not responsible?? Damn right I am, I cant go blame Johnny the builder because he hired cheap labour, or the cement company because they sold inferior cement - I made the decision and I am responsible.

 

Same here bud, Same here.!

 

If you have something constructive or interesting to add, lets hear it by all means, but keep the sarcasim to yourself.

 

porky2009-03-17 09:30:20

[Windbreaker]

 

 

A company cannot however be anti competitive with itself...

I dunno abut that. Can't recall how many times have I seen various outlets of the same business under-cutting each other - especially near year end and salesman have targets to meet.

 

[Overlord]

Jules' date=' seeing that you are so well versed in all aspects of life and seem to be a specialist on every field, I beg you my master, teach me

Humbly yours

[/quote']

 

I know what type of work he does and who he works for. So when he speaks regarding companies, sit up and listen. He speaks from experience.

Onetime2009-03-17 09:23:11

[SwissVan]

SwissVan2009-03-17 09:29:57

[wpdeb]

Jules' date=' seeing that you are so well versed in all aspects of life and seem to be a specialist on every field, I beg you my master, teach me

Humbly yours

[/quote']

 

Really wpdeb, your posts are juvenile and have not made a single point.

 

Make your point instead of posting sarcastic and infantile remarks about others.

 

If FP and AM felt they needed higher margins, they should have done what every other ethical businessman dos - take a ticker machine walk around your shop and increase prices - INDEPENDANTLY.

 

.........but No, they decided if they do this, customers will shop elsewhere because they would be percieved as too expensive, so to save their own butts, they decided to become spokesmen for the cycle industry and call a meeting to UNILATERALLY INCREASE prices ACROSS the board by stated amounts - by doing this, they can increase their own margins and the customer cant go elsewhere and get it cheaper - the intent here my friend, is PRICE SETTING/ FIXING - and its illegal.

 

I dont care whats going on in the cycling industry, every businessman needs to take responsibility for his or her actions, if I decide to cut costs here and there in a construction project and a malls roof falls down - am I not responsible?? Damn right I am, I cant go blame Johnny the builder because he hired cheap labour, or the cement company because they sold inferior cement - I made the decision and I am responsible.

 

Same here bud, Same here.!

 

If you have something constructive or interesting to add, lets hear it by all means, but keep the sarcasim to yourself.

 

I am sorry if my post came over as too sarcastic but I actually did ask a question of how this was anti-competitive and the reply I got was sarcastic.

I appreciate your explanation put down in your post, but were these increases fixed and no bargaining on the price allowed and what would the penalty be to a cycle shop who decided to give discount.

[porky]

 

I am sorry if my post came over as too sarcastic but I actually did ask a question of how this was anti-competitive and the reply I got was sarcastic.

I appreciate your explanation put down in your post' date=' but were these increases fixed and no bargaining on the price allowed and what would the penalty be to a cycle shop who decided to give discount.

[/quote']

 

Hey, no offense taken and this is after all, the internet.!

 

Yes, to my understanding the increase (in %) was decided upon and a date was even set for its implimentation.

 

The intention following was to limit discounting by certain shops by having the wholesaler / importer limit or stop supply to these discounting shops.

 

Any businessman can obviously decide to increase his own price independantly of the market, thats his/her discretion, but it is illegal to collude with others to do so in tandem for obvious reasons posted here.

 

 

 

[NotSoBigBen]

So today due to various circumstances I happen to pass FPC in Irene and needed a BB removed from a frame that we have sold. Walk in , Charl (I think that's correct!) at the counter immediately looks over and asks how I'm doing and what can he do for me. Can you remove this BB? I'll collect later ...... hey man go down stairs talk to the workshop guys I'm sure they'll help you. Go down immediate assistance and then I ask how much I owe ....... nothing dude it's cool!

Now I have probably been in there about 5 times in the 2 years that I have worked in Centurion so it's not like I am some 'homey' of theirs, in fact they don't even know my name!

 

The point of this? The generalisation of all RSA bike shops give crap service or FPC know nothing about service and are just money grabbing pratts may not be a true reflection of the local LBS's.

 

Having said that I still agree that collusion/price fixing is not on and if it is proven I will be as mad as the next guy. Lucky I do know that my regular LBS was not there but I'm not sure if the prices he is being charged (therefore passed on to me!) have not been influenced by what may or may not have been decided there!

 

....... then again maybe I'm just rambling on needlessly who knows

[porky]

Now I have probably been in there about 5 times in the 2 years that I have worked in Centurion so it's not like I am some 'homey' of theirs' date=' in fact they don't even know my name!

 

The point of this? The generalisation of all RSA bike shops give crap service or FPC know nothing about service and are just money grabbing pratts may not be a true reflection of the local LBS's.

 

....... then again maybe I'm just rambling on needlessly who knows

[/quote']

 

Hmmm, I hear you BB, but in my opinion they were just doing their job, dont you think?? I dont see it as extraordinary.!

 

The fact they didnt charge you is nice, but how long could it have taken 3 minutes, four - hardly going to be worth the paper for an invoice.

 

My point () is assisting a customer is a function of business, its not something strange, both you and I do it every day, its how we put bread on the table.

 

Allow me an example - a week ago I klapped a pothole on my way to Nelspruit and damaged my rim, after various meetings etc I got to the AUDI dealership at about 4pm and asked them to look at it.

 

Klapping potholes is not covered under motorplan but they pulled a car off the lift, put mine up and checked for damage - no charge.

 

They then suggested the rim was repairable and they gave me the number of a mag wheel repair specialist, I called him at about 4.45, and explained my situation, his reply - "No you cant drive back to Johannesburg without a spare, bring it in and I will straighten it for you - no problem.

 

The bottom line is he stayed late and fixed my wheel, he didnt charge me extra, (his prices were on a board) but he understood the "function of business and assisting the customer" and that a happy customer will recommend him around.

 

Dont get me wrong, I understand your point, but as I said, to me its just business, I dont see or understand why there is this preconception you have to be a "good customer" of the bike shop to get service or assistance, we are all customers and all deserve the same service...................... now, had they removed the BB, washed the bike, fixed the paint chips and wrapped it all up in a SA flag for no charge I would have said, "thats above and beyond the call" - but to me they just did their job (which is why they are there anyway), nothing unusual.!!