Would you recommend Q rings

[amdretard]

Oval shaped chain rings ,. They suppossed to eliminate or reduce dead spots in your stroke.

[BikeMax]

I thought this was the best take I have seen on the whole Q ring concept;

 

"These Rotor Crank people do not recognize that work is FORCE x

DISTANCE and that their crank only changes the phase of the legs, not

the work performed. This is basically a perpetual motion machine, one

that creates power with no additional effort.

 

If these people would ride up a long grade, they would notice that the

limitation is cardiovascular (assuming they were in condition to do

so) and that all the phase change mechanisms do not alter the work

performed or achieved. In fact smooth sinusoidal motion does that

best.

 

Jobst Brandt

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

 

[WorcesterWheelers]

Ok, here's my take on the Q-rings.

While I'm no scientist, the above comment from Mr. Brandt, I'd like to ask the following question.

As he says, to go up a hill, FORCE x DISTANCE. If you become more pedal efficient (either by improving your pedal stroke, or a set of Q-rings in this case) surely you will be producing more FORCE at the same effort, or vise versa, you would need less effort to produce the same FORCE?

I'm patiently waiting for my Campy rings, also have them on my TT bike and on the Tandem (where I definately can notice a real benefit, especially while climbing) and if they fitted on my FSA carbon cranks, I'd fit a pair on the MTB too.

Just looking at the Poll stats:

Happy with Q-rings - 15 ; Heard good things - 21  ; Unhappy with them - 0, Zip, zero..... Heard bad things - 10.

While this is only a very small sample, not one person has said they are unhappy with them.

 

So even if you're sinical and they just make you "believe" they make you faster / more efficient, then Q-rings are still beneficial.

 

As for me personally, after my second ride on my set with my Powertap wheel, I phoned Ivan and asked him what I need to do to become a dealer that stocks them....

 

Since then I've sold out all my stock, and waiting for my next lot (should arive next week) and to date I have not had one customer with any negative feed back about the Q-rings, and I've had PLENTY of happy users with lots of good things to say about them.

 

On this forum you can ask Fanie for his impressions and pretty soon also Fandacius and Mdk555.

[Floyd]

OK, so I quickly buy this Q-rings and hope for the better results. Problem is I will still be the average Joe amongst all the Q-ringers now. So, to overcome that I probably need to train harder then to beat them. Maybe that's what I should've done in the first place. Gimmicks and short cuts will not do it for the serious racers out there but maybe for those with time and other restrictions/limitations/keep-up-with-the-jones's etc. The pscychologic problem then becomes the issue of "..what if I am still getting dropped where I was now supposed to have an advantage/improvement, what can I now change on the bike"

 

Bikemax said it about 4 pages ago: ...what about real hard honest training!

 

Take your training programme for the last  6 months to a specialist coach and he will quickly point out to you  the REAL problem/issue.

 

Maybe you should sponsor a top racer who struggle to get podiums.

 

[Ivanb]

Bikemax. This article is relating to Rotor Cranks NOT Q rings. Rotor Cranks is a complete system where the crank arms'move' eliminating the deadspot. It sounds like this guy has not ridden a set but rather hides behinds theories which have been proved otherwise. The Rotor Crank riders climb better faster and easier than normal cranks.

 

Are you guys willing to do some testing on Q Rings or Rotor Cranks? I am willing to loan you a set to prove the workings thereof.

 

You guys are believers in power training, so why not use a product that benefits this by making you more effecient.

 

One of the biggest 'complaints' is that guys say my power is down, but they forget to look at the speed, heart rate and cadence they are at, at that time. Both are usually lower. Therefore they are much more effecient.

 

Bikemax I am willing for you to try them and give an honest opinion. Do you have Computrainer and spin scan?

 

Call me on 073 373 5999 or pm me so we can talk details.

[Ivanb]

Ok' date=' here's my take on the Q-rings.

While I'm no scientist, the above comment from Mr. Brandt, I'd like to ask the following question.

As he says, to go up a hill, FORCE x DISTANCE. If you become more pedal efficient (either by improving your pedal stroke, or a set of Q-rings in this case) surely you will be producing more FORCE at the same effort, or vise versa, you would need less effort to produce the same FORCE?

I'm patiently waiting for my Campy rings, also have them on my TT bike and on the Tandem (where I definately can notice a real benefit, especially while climbing) and if they fitted on my FSA carbon cranks, I'd fit a pair on the MTB too.

[/quote']

 

Unfortunately FSA have a very thick crank arm where it meets the spider. Why i don't know. The guys riding those cranks have modified the Q Rings (officially not recomended)in that area. But now with the Agilis cranks and SABB you can ride Q rings on all on all bikes !!!!

 

No more pimping your bike rather 'Rotorize It' Q rinsg Agilis Cranks, SABB, and N1 stem 

[Ivanb]

I thought this was the best take I have seen on the whole Q ring concept;

"These Rotor Crank people do not recognize that work is FORCE x
DISTANCE and that their crank only changes the phase of the legs' date=' not
the work performed. This is basically a perpetual motion machine, one
that creates power with no additional effort.

If these people would ride up a long grade, they would notice that the
limitation is cardiovascular (assuming they were in condition to do
so) and that all the phase change mechanisms do not alter the work
performed or achieved. In fact smooth sinusoidal motion does that
best.

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org
[/quote']

 

 

Bikemax. This article is relating to Rotor Cranks NOT Q rings. Rotor Cranks is a complete system where the crank arms'move' eliminating the deadspot. It sounds like this guy has not ridden a set but rather hides behinds theories which have been proved otherwise. The Rotor Crank riders climb better faster and easier than normal cranks.

 

Are you guys willing to do some testing on Q Rings or Rotor Cranks? I am willing to loan you a set to prove the workings thereof.

 

You guys are believers in power training, so why not use a product that benefits this by making you more effecient.

 

One of the biggest 'complaints' is that guys say my power is down, but they forget to look at the speed, heart rate and cadence they are at, at that time. Both are usually lower. Therefore they are much more effecient.

 

Bikemax I am willing for you to try them and give an honest opinion. Do you have Computrainer and spin scan?

 

Call me on 073 373 5999 or pm me so we can talk details.

[Ivanb]

OK' date=' so I quickly buy this Q-rings and hope for the better results. Problem is I will still be the average Joe amongst all the Q-ringers now. So, to overcome that I probably need to train harder then to beat them. Maybe that's what I should've done in the first place. Gimmicks and short cuts will not do it for the serious racers out there but maybe for those with time and other restrictions/limitations/keep-up-with-the-jones's etc. The pscychologic problem then becomes the issue of "..what if I am still getting dropped where I was now supposed to have an advantage/improvement, what can I now change on the bike"

Bikemax said it about 4 pages ago: ...what about real hard honest training!

Take your training programme for the last  6 months to a specialist coach and he will quickly point out to you  the REAL problem/issue.

Maybe you should sponsor a top racer who struggle to get podiums.
[/quote']

 

Floyd maybe you right maybe you not.

 

The reality is that yes training is what counts, Nobody says ride the rings and thats all you need to do. Yes hopefully one day all will ride Q rings.

 

But if something gives you easier riding better knees, less lactate more power better effeciency, then it adds to your training, it allows your recovery to be better, it allows you to train harder and to race easier.

 

So yes you might become the same average joe with all the q ringers, but YOU will be riding better and easier and thats what you want!

[Ivanb]

---

http://www.rotorbike.com/rotornews/imagenes/R.gif

 

 Dream bikes with Q-Rings...

http://www.rotorbike.com/rotornews/imagenes2006/img_rn_62/dream.gifCOLNAGO Benelux offers the high end Dream HX with Q-Rings as standard material. The image to the right comes from page 7 of the product catalogue, where you can see the choice for these innovative rings. More and more manufacturers and their regional  component decision makers have slowed down to second-guess their original assumptions on Q-Rings, taking them on for their own merits and not shunning them for copies of previous products. We suspect they've figured, "If Marianne has won on these things, so will we". See the whole catalogue.

Endorfin Bikes, a German manufacturer of exclusive, custom carbon and aluminium bikes, will also offer the Q-Rings and ?gilis cranks in 2007. In Endorfin's build options you find only the best of products, like Lightweight wheels, Syntace components, DT, etc.

[Marius]

I'll take a set for testing purposes IvanB, I got a PowerMeter, just not sure how we are going to test it!? Any ideas? Can you really test it either way?

[Ivanb]

Haa haa Marius!! Boost yourself Why should I let you test them?

 

Come on sell yourself

[FanieFiets]

Marius - I think you must have a Computrainer with spinscan as well to test it properly. Sounds like a SISSA study job!

 

Floyd - So why do you buy a newer, stiffer, lighter bicycle? Rather ride with a 12 kg steel bike with Sora and train harder!

 

Bikemax - . Obviously work = Force x distance. But q-rings enables you to generate that force more effectively thus higher force = higer work ceteris paribus

[BikeMax]

 

Bikemax. This article is relating to Rotor Cranks NOT Q rings. Rotor Cranks is a complete system where the crank arms'move' eliminating the deadspot. It sounds like this guy has not ridden a set but rather hides behinds theories which have been proved otherwise. The Rotor Crank riders climb better faster and easier than normal cranks.

 

Are you guys willing to do some testing on Q Rings or Rotor Cranks? I am willing to loan you a set to prove the workings thereof.

 

You guys are believers in power training' date=' so why not use a product that benefits this by making you more effecient.

 

One of the biggest 'complaints' is that guys say my power is down, but they forget to look at the speed, heart rate and cadence they are at, at that time. Both are usually lower. Therefore they are much more effecient.

 

Bikemax I am willing for you to try them and give an honest opinion. Do you have Computrainer and spin scan?

 

Call me on 073 373 5999 or pm me so we can talk details.

[/quote']

 

Thanks Ivan - I appreciate the offer.

 

If I could reconcile the science and the theory behind the product then I would gladly try and prove the benefit - but I cannot at present do that.

 

I have spent a fair amount of time researching the science and background, but I am afraid that whichever way it is dressed up, I do not believe that the work or output can be increased simply by changing the pedalling wave to one that supposedly eliminates the deadspot. To assume that a rider can output more power through a full stroke because he gets a "rest" at one point and can then push harder at another is just not correct. The limitation is still going to be the riders cardiovascular ability - altering the way he pedals does not suddenly allow him to overcome and change basic exercise physiology. It is a misunderstanding of what physical exertion is and how it is applied to the propulsion of a bicycle. All the work done by a rider (minus frictional losses) goes to propelling the bicycle. Changing pedal timing cannot create more work/unit-time (power) than the rider's cardiovascular system can support.

 

Re the Rotors and the Q rings - I am pretty sure the principles on which the claims are made are the same (eliminating dead spot) so I believe Jobsts comments to be applicable.

 

Peter

[Ivanb]

Peter it is about more than one factor.

 

Yes cardio is a limitation for that I have the Powerlung to train respiratory muscles for improved breathing benefits.

 

The Q rings is not only allowing one to push harder at a certain postion or for a certain period. It is a system of pedalling that improves the mechanics of pedallin, less muscle fatigue, easier pedalling, more effecient pedalling and great deal more.

 

 

Let me ask you why are the cams in a car engine offset and not round?

 

If your are looking at the science then you need to look at the scientific articles, as they prove the results.

 

The best way to solve any concerns is to try. Without trying one cannot look at science and theory alone. Man learnt he as human cannot fly like a bird by try.

 

Are you saying that the guys riding them are not gettiing the results they say they are?

 

Why then are there immediate improvements the day the Q Rings are placed on their bikes?

[Marius]

Ivanb, I agree with FanieFiets, the SCI would probably be a better place to test them, a PowerMeter alone will not help much I think. But don't worry, I'll buy a pair as soon as my Mtb Crank looses a few more teeth

[FanieFiets]

Bikemax - No offence, just because you cant understand something doesnt mean it doenst work.