Huh!!!!!! Landis and Lance

[Kritzie]

'Usada wanted me to implicate Lance'
Posted on 11 May 2007 - 08:55

 

http://images.supersport.co.za/LandisFloyd060728closeupGbg.jpgEmbattled Tour de France champion Floyd Landis said on Thursday that US anti-doping officials offered early in his case to go easy on him if he provided evidence incriminating former champ Lance Armstrong. "That took place in the first conversation between Usada (the US Anti-Doping Agency) and my lawyer," Landis said at a press conference looking ahead to the start of his arbitration hearing on Monday. "It was offered to me that if I give up something on Lance Armstrong to incriminate him, I would serve the lightest possible suspension," Landis said. The American, who is battling to keep his 2006 Tour de France title, said he thought the offer showed a cynicism that has affected the entire anti-doping process. "I do find it to be offensive. And I think it goes to the character of the prosecution," said Landis, who added that in any case he had no information to offer on the subject of doping and Armstrong - the seven-times winner of the world's most prestigious cycle race who has vehemently denied accusations of doping. Usada could not immediately be reached for comment. The agency's standard policy is not to comment on open cases. Landis said he didn't expect the subject to arise during his hearing before a three-man panel of the American Arbitration Association, which is expected to last ten days. "We would wish the hearing would be about science and about a doping case," he said. "This is what I've been accused of." Landis and his advisers argue that the French laboratory that found an unusually high level of testosterone in his sample given after the stunning stage 17 triumph that keyed his Tour victory failed to follow proper procedures in handling the samples. "All I can hope for, really, is that the three arbitrators will listen to the facts in the case," he said

[widget]

Is it not amazing that all these accused athletes can do is attack the laboratory.??

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

What a pin head, the lab has proved he doped, his team tossed him out,I for one have no doubt he doped and judging by his lack of support I am not alone, and I see he has had to go on a sort of "publicity road tour" to gather money and support for his quickly failing cause.

 

Even his own lawyer has said the french lab is an accredited institution and although they would like tests done in the USA,  they will have NO CHOICE but to accept the Labs credentials.

 

In my opinion the sooner they toss him out and get rid of him the better.!

 

[TNT1]

 

Is it not amazing that all these accused athletes can do is attack the laboratory.??

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

 

 

And there is the problem... out of 180 other riders, not tests, cause they do more than that, simple probability statistics tell you that more should be returned as positive results. No test is 100% accurate, so you will get what is known as false positives. And there were none? Bull! the only positive is the race winner? Ok.

Now don't get me wrong, I am certain that Lance and Co, Flandis and co, and every nearly every other ProTour rider did not compete in last year's or any other season on banananas and mineral water alone, but the testing procedure is inherently flawed and open to abuse and manipulation.

 

[TNT1]

 

 

Even his own lawyer has said the french lab is an accredited institution and although they would like tests done in the USA' date='  they will have NO CHOICE but to accept the Labs credentials.

[/quote']

 

Yes, even though the lab may be completely at fault and discredited, the rider involved signed on the dotted line and accepted the UCI's code and rules when he recieved his racing licence, so yes, he has no choice.

 

[Christie]

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

 

Hmm, what about the 120 riders implicated in Puerto? Basso claims that because  he was tested repeatedly, this proves that hes clean, and never doped. These labs cant be very good. 

[nochain]

"Hmm, what about the 120 riders implicated in Puerto? Basso claims that because  he was tested repeatedly, this proves that hes clean, and never doped. These labs cant be very good."

 

Very good point Christie ,it just shows you how far ahead the drugs are ,none of these riders actually tested positive for any banned substance!! 

[Windbreaker]

 

Is it not amazing that all these accused athletes can do is attack the laboratory.??

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

What a pin head' date=' the lab has proved he doped, his team tossed him out,I for one have no doubt he doped and judging by his lack of support I am not alone, and I see he has had to go on a sort of "publicity road tour" to gather money and support for his quickly failing cause.

 

Even his own lawyer has said the french lab is an accredited institution and although they would like tests done in the USA,  they will have NO CHOICE but to accept the Labs credentials.

 

In my opinion the sooner they toss him out and get rid of him the better.!

 

[/quote']

For someone who quite regularly attacks our local institutions, regularly quotes facts & figures and berates the rest of us for just "accepting without questioning" I must say that I am quite surprised at you stance on this one.

 

There are MANY, MANY documented cases where athletes have been found not guilty based on improprieties, flawed testing procedures and just simple sloppy work from The Lab in question.

 

 

[widget]

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

 

Hmm' date=' what about the 120 riders implicated in Puerto? Basso claims that because  he was tested repeatedly, this proves that hes clean, and never doped. These labs cant be very good. [/quote']

 

You have to accept the "face value" of the tests Christie.

 

There may be doubts and there may be reasons to believe otherwise, but the record will show 180 riders were clean only Landis was doped.

This is regarded as fact now and is accepted as such.

 

TNT.

 

Dope tests are a bit like speeding, speed today and get away with it, speed tomorrow and you will get caught.

You cannot use the fact that "everybody was speeding yesterday and didnt get caught" or "the trap must be faulty because my clock said I was witihn the limits" as an excuse - you speed today, you get caught - thats it - even if the science is not 100% correct, its a standard and everybody accepts this.

If you fall outside of the standard - you are caught - no excuses - its not good enough to say the tests dont conform to this or that or are not 100% foolproof - nobody cares - the "STANDARD" stands and everybody has to accept that, like it or not. 

 

[E1A104]

Why has landis only mentioned that now?? Trying to draw some attention from his hearing perhaps ...??

[widget]

Is it not amazing that all these accused athletes can do is attack the laboratory.??

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

What a pin head' date=' the lab has proved he doped, his team tossed him out,I for one have no doubt he doped and judging by his lack of support I am not alone, and I see he has had to go on a sort of "publicity road tour" to gather money and support for his quickly failing cause.

 

Even his own lawyer has said the french lab is an accredited institution and although they would like tests done in the USA,  they will have NO CHOICE but to accept the Labs credentials.

 

In my opinion the sooner they toss him out and get rid of him the better.!

 

[/quote']
For someone who quite regularly attacks our local institutions, regularly quotes facts & figures and berates the rest of us for just "accepting without questioning" I must say that I am quite surprised at you stance on this one.

There are MANY, MANY documented cases where athletes have been found not guilty based on improprieties, flawed testing procedures and just simple sloppy work from The Lab in question.

 

Yes, there probably are - although I cant think of any recently.

 

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

 

I can however probably think of at least 20 athletes who got caught, lied, had their day in court, were proven as liers and cheats and were either suspended or just retired.

Certainly not the outcome I wouild have expected from flawed procedures or sloppy lab work.

 

99% OF ALL CASES ARE PROVEN and the results UPHELD.Thats a pretty good result for sloppy labs.!!

 

 

   

[TNT1]

 

 

I find it quite amazing that 180 other cyclists were tested by the same lab and all passed - except Landis - so obviously the lab is to blame!!

 

 

Hmm' date=' what about the 120 riders implicated in Puerto? Basso claims that because  he was tested repeatedly, this proves that hes clean, and never doped. These labs cant be very good. [/quote']

 

You have to accept the "face value" of the tests Christie.

 

There may be doubts and there may be reasons to believe otherwise, but the record will show 180 riders were clean only Landis was doped.

This is regarded as fact now and is accepted as such.

 

TNT.

 

Dope tests are a bit like speeding, speed today and get away with it, speed tomorrow and you will get caught.

You cannot use the fact that "everybody was speeding yesterday and didnt get caught" or "the trap must be faulty because my clock said I was witihn the limits" as an excuse - you speed today, you get caught - thats it - even if the science is not 100% correct, its a standard and everybody accepts this.

If you fall outside of the standard - you are caught - no excuses - its not good enough to say the tests dont conform to this or that or are not 100% foolproof - nobody cares - the "STANDARD" stands and everybody has to accept that, like it or not. 

 

 

I agree, that is why I agree with Landis' lawyer saying they have no choice but to accept the test results. I agree that the rules apply and riders found guilty must accept the sanction imposed. At the same time, I agree with LA and Landis that the testing system and facility is flawed. The two views are not anathema and do not consistently need contradict one another.

 

[Oiltrash]

I'm new to Cycling..but have been tested a few times for Drugs n Alcohol when on a rig, got off the next day and got pissed with the medic who did the tests?????  I am sure the chaps that do the tests after events are also angels....! Oiltrash2007-05-11 04:25:27

[widget]

Sure TNT1 - theres no argument - standards have to be applied and adhered to.

Its in every facet of life from the time you are born until you die - we live, work, and socialize by a standard - it may not be what we like, but thats it - its accepted.

 

They cannot be twisted to suit one person, because then - when do you stop "twisting"?

 

.........and this is the angle Landis and almost all the other accused take - they try and have the "standards twisted" to suit them.

 

 

[TNT1]

Fair, but at the same time, awareness needs to be raised that the testing procedure and lab is flawed. That is the only way a new system will be implemented. Sure, there will always be human error, but clearly a new system of testing (as well as a new overall anti-doping strategy) need to be rationalised and implemented.

[Christie]

I wonder whats up with Tyler Hamilton these days. Hes been suspended due to alleged involvement in Puerto. He can't confess like Basso, because of his whole "I'm innocent thing" Looks like hes between a rock and a hard place!

[bruce]

Abuse can happen both ways - this is why any party that is employed to uphold a certain law, must adhere to it 100%, or risk the case being thrown out.  A person that is charged with breaking a law must have a fair opportunity to defend himself - and ensure that the law was correctly applied.

Being falsely accused is just as bad as being found innocent due to a technicality i.m.o.