Riis stripped of Tour de France title

[GoLefty!!]

oh  my oh my oh my,

I can see the ex riders and ex champuions queueing up to confess now..

 

[Poison Ivy]

I am a little lost here - If EPO was not knowen about in 96 and was not a banned substance - how can it be called doping.

 

My Q exactly... as far as I could see, no EPO testing was done in 1996 yet and  Riis claimed he doped on EPO from 1993 - 1996... So lets asume EPO wasn't on the banned list in 1996, he actually didn't do anything wrong...technically...

 

Couldn't find a list of banned substances dating that far back. So my theory is hypothetical

[Delgado]

I am a little lost here - If EPO was not knowen about in 96 and was not a banned substance - how can it be called doping.

 

It that not similar to doing 90km/h in a 100km/h zone and the next day they decided to make it a 70km/h zone. Surely you could not get a fine for doing 90km/h the previous day?

 

Quite right hence why laws cannot be enacted retroactively!!

[bruce]

oh  my oh my oh my' date='

I can see the ex riders and ex champuions queueing up to confess now..

 [/quote']

My point exactly!

[Le Tour]

Does that mean until Jan is proven guilty, he is the "winner" of the TdF 1996??  Just imagine if Lance is found guilty, Jan could be the most successful Tour rider of all time!!  

[Poison Ivy]

Does that mean until Jan is proven guilty' date=' he is the "winner" of the TdF 1996??  Just imagine if Lance is found guilty, Jan could be the most successful Tour rider of all time!!  [/quote']

 

Very good point, but with the way things are for poor Jan at the moment, I think he'll be  found guilty before Lance will "admit" to anything and we know that won't happy.

 

See 2moro or are you doing MTB-ing?

[No Name Funrider]

They MUST now take all the medals away from American 1984 olympic team who admitted to blood doping (it was not illegal then)also Francesco Moser admitted to blood doping before his hour record.All East German atheletes who (women mainly)who broke world records before steroids were banned.Big name cyclists Eddy M etc who lived on corticoids and amphetamines--the list goes on and on and on.Hats off to Rhys he has done alot for CSC and cycling in general; i dont think he will go easily as he owns a big share in the team ;may lose sponsor tho.They are prob using the American method now if u dont admit to doping we will make sure you go down in a big way--admit it and we will go easy on you.They cant prove anything so they act on admissions of guilt and finger pointing.NNF

[Cruxpearl]

EPO was banned in 1990 but the International Cycling Union did not begin a urine test for it until 2001. The first testing actually started in 2000 but it took some labs longer to get up to speed.

So it was illegal to use EPO in 1993 and 1996, although there was no way to test if you had been using EPO then

[MintSauce]

....and you want to forgive him.!!!

 

 

 

 

I used to be like you until I got to a point in my life when I had to ask for forgiveness. Tends to change your perspective.

 

Unless you think you're perfect of course?

 

Riis doped. But he did come clean. It seems he's trying to make amends.

 

As for the questions raised about why he 'suddenly' came clean now....maybe it wasn't sudden? Maybe the leading role his team has taken in preventing doping is proof that his conscience has been bugging him for a while?

 

This confession is huge! None of us can possibly comprehend how much courage it takes to get up on the world stage in front of people you cheated and admit it.

 

Now you might think him a coward for cheating' date=' but having been in a similar situation I can assure you it takes COURAGE to own up and admit that you f_ed up and to acknowledge that what you did was wrong.

 

I don't pretend to know all. I could be wrong and it's possible he's still playing the system and something forced him to play this hand(like others have stated).

 

However, we do know that the scale of doping is huge.

 

How many others have come clean? Very few.

 

How many that have come clean stand to lose as much as he does? Even less.

 

The man at least deserves a chance! And I think he deserves to be forgiven and deserves to be allowed to continue the positive role he's played in cycling in recent years.

 

By all means strip him off his title and punish him in whatever way the law demands/allows. But if human beings can't forgive, the human race is utterly F_ED because WE WILL ALL make mistakes(intentional or not) and we will all need some forgiveness at some point in our lives. You get what you give....right?

 

 

 

 

 

Where will that take us.?  

 

Maybe we should let all the child molesters out now as well, hey, what about the fraudsters, lets just leave them, I mean they can show us where all the others are.!

 

 

If doping is a criminal offence and is punishable by law, then he should be charged and receive whatever is his due. If not, then you're comparing apples with oranges here.

 

 

 

 

[Tumbleweed]

[quote=MintSauce

I used to be like you until I got to a point in my life when I had to ask for forgiveness. Tends to change your perspective.

 

 

how true. very well said

[Tumbleweed]

mintsauce, what lends the man a bit more cred is that he knows some of us may forgive but we'll never be able to forget. to let the entire world know that you've been a bad, bad man takes guts 

 

and, as you point out, whether he was forced to is immaterial. how many of us are caught out in everyday life for our failings? that's what denial is for.

 

a lot of us cycling fans and critics want to punish bjarne. you may never forgive him. but remember this, this dude has to try truly forgive himself. and that's harder than to looking for other's forgiveness.    

  

[PokerFace]

Well said MintSauce!!!! 

[PokerFace]

Riis was wrong we he doped! BUT he is doing more to get cycling away from drugs today, than most people. Riis is doing more than most people, kicking him when he is down, including a lot of hubbers. Before anybody criticizes Riis again, ask yourself, "What am I doing to fight doping?". I bet nothing or very little. Try and think a bit bigger than your own feelings here. It's not about whether you feel cheated and betrayed.

[Gumpole]

Call me a cycnic, call me naive.. but come on people, think with your brains.

Suddenly there are huge drug confessions in the in Team Telekom (the team that Riis won the TDF with). His 'lieutenent' in that race, Ullrich, is days or weeks away from being bust.. Somebody WILL spill the beans on him, out of fear, or a reduced sentence or whatever.

 

Riis new 100% that he was going to be discovered and did the logical damage limitation exercise.

 

He is no hero for confessing, as he new he was going to be bust anyway.

[Tumbleweed]

good argument gumpole, but why do it knowing that'll blow your team out the water just weeks before the tdf? that's crazy!

[MintSauce]

Call me a cycnic' date=' call me naive.. but come on people, think with your brains.

Suddenly there are huge drug confessions in the in Team Telekom (the team that Riis won the TDF with). His 'lieutenent' in that race, Ullrich, is days or weeks away from being bust.. Somebody WILL spill the beans on him, out of fear, or a reduced sentence or whatever.

 

Riis new 100% that he was going to be discovered and did the logical damage limitation exercise.

 

He is no hero for confessing, as he new he was going to be bust anyway.

[/quote']

 

 

I'm in no way saying he's a hero. As a cyclist, he no longer has my respect.

 

However, I think that any person deserves the right to regain their credibility and to regain my trust. And my statement is not specific to this instance. That's how I see life.

 

Just my opinion though. I understand that there are very different viewpoints in this regard.