#numbercollectionsmustfall : PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

[Frosty]

FWIW - I have sent a mail to Wynand (ASG) to hear if he is interested. Read my reply by following the link.

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/165370-event-bestmed-berge-en-dale-classic/?do=findComment&comment=3053391

 

Then, in reply to these posts:

Fair enough, but they don't spend 4 hours in traffic? They have someone collecting numbers on their behalf..

 

 

This has complications at the moment as well - I know of people that have photoshopped numbers and printed them out. This at least has a new measure of control built in as well.

 

However, I have given this some thought - quite a bit of thought, and have almost an entire ecosystem thought out. Part of creating the system I mentioned, you would be able to list your LBS, and the organiser can then better plan out delivery etc. so the LBS are seeing an increase in sales - I have thought out a seeding system as well. Just run into my limits technically and financially..

 

If anyone wants to meet up to discuss in JHB, I'd be happy to..

This was proposed to Cycle Events when we (CCMNC) met with them last year to discuss moving back to them after using another race office. Nominate 5-6 bikes shops initially and let it grow from there. Resistance!

 

Hi guys,
I have not read all 16 pages, but for the Amashove the organisers courier your number to you if you ask. Very convenient and saves a stack of time and trouble.
Regards
Sarge

Amashova close their entries one month before the race, so they have time to print numbers, and arrange the courier service. The race I'm involved with (CCMNC) have done it before with less than two weeks before the entries close.

[scotty]

Someone should have done something about this. This thread started in 2010. 

 

Maybe this would work:

 

Permanent number like the PPA's in the Mother City. Only change when seeding moves up [obviously]. Change of colour with the season. Then after entering for a race, we get an attachment to print on the confirmation email as proof of entry and we present it to the Marshalls at the start.

 

We don't really have to have stickers on our backs. Racetec will then have a number of people who entered for the race and only those will have results showing.

 

I think this is simple. Sorry if mentioned before.

From what I understand, in WC you need to belong to PPA and have a racetec chip to partake. In Gauteng it is not a requirement to have a chip, many just want to ride and use their basic cycle computer for a time. 

[Lostee]

From what I understand, in WC you need to belong to PPA and have a racetec chip to partake. In Gauteng it is not a requirement to have a chip, many just want to ride and use their basic cycle computer for a time. 

 

Correct about PPA races else you start right at the back or get a temp.

 

For the Gauteng guys wanting to juuuust ride [for fun and to keep sane], I see no problem with what I suggested above. The only requirement at the start will be the proof of entry. Maybe a barcoded piece of paper that can be scanned so it picks up if people are reprinting these.

[Frosty]

From what I understand, in WC you need to belong to PPA and have a racetec chip to partake. In Gauteng it is not a requirement to have a chip, many just want to ride and use their basic cycle computer for a time. 

Organisers are billed per person (entered) for timing, so that's why some events insist on a timing chip (think 947). But you're right, a timing chip is not currently compulsory.

[scotty]

FWIW - I have sent a mail to Wynand (ASG) to hear if he is interested. Read my reply by following the link.

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/165370-event-bestmed-berge-en-dale-classic/?do=findComment&comment=3053391

 

Then, in reply to these posts:

This was proposed to Cycle Events when we (CCMNC) met with them last year to discuss moving back to them after using another race office. Nominate 5-6 bikes shops initially and let it grow from there. Resistance!

 

What is the reason why CSA are so reluctant to allow riders to collect on race day. They are paid/remunerated using our money. 

[Frosty]

Meanwhile, on Twitter:

 

Collection venues

 

[scotty]

Even though they have far more participants ASA have it pegged down and you can collect your event entry on the day. 

[Spinnekop]

Challenge to the organisers out there:

 

5 Races spread over a year.  Thus a "series"

All 5 races seeding events for Ractec cartel.

Take my R1500 up front

One number

 

Done

[Frosty]

I received a positive reply from Wynand, who agrees that number collection is a pain, for both organiser and participant, but agrees that registration can't be avoided (queries and late entries are also processed during this time). It doesn't mean he will start with it immediately, but is willing to be part of the solution - assuming one can be found.

 

Unless one has been involved with organising a race, it's not as clear cut as issuing a permanent number, enter the event and then race - but it is possible to get to that point with a few conditions.

 

We're one step closer than before - we have 4 Gauteng-based events (+1 at Sun City) that are willing to use the same number for those races. It means 3 (+1) trips to collect a number could possibly be avoided - but still needs a solution to ensure people pay for their entry, and start in the correct group.

 

Currently there are events using ASG Events, Cycle Events and Entelect (can't remember the exact name of the portal), but at least everyone is using Racetec for timing. Each entry portal needs to be able to store the number against the participants details, but also print numbers for those that don't take the permanent number option, or resist change. Some race organisers might resist this, so it also needs time and hopefully an example from a few to see how it works.

 

Seeding is the next problem - each one of the above mentioned race offices use their own seeding, and that is made known before and after each event (especially on this forum). The licensed bunches are really affected, at least for the majority of races but it happens more often in the alphabet soup. There is no way any organiser would be willing to have two systems in place, one for the licensed, and one for the non-licensed. The solution is to get the province to implement this, if CyclingSA are too incompetent to roll with this.

 

The guys in the Western Cape seem to be on top of their game, KZN complain there aren't enough quality (road) events - especially CTCT seeding events, while the numbers at other provinces are low. It means we're talking Gauteng-based (and nearby events) that this would work for. Sorry for the other guys, but charity begins at home.

 

Gauteng Province needs to step up and earn the rondelas they receive from our registration fees and rider levy fees - R2.50 per rider at each event, and R50-R75 per member that registers with CyclingSA. This excludes any money that could be generated from local government for adhering to a few SASCOC requirements.

[100Tours]

I'm avidly following this topic - mostly because number collection in Gauteng is such a pain and because there are a number of events that I do not enter because I cannot manage the number collection (e.g. number collection during work hours and 2-3hour round trip to collect).  I do not care for the goodie bags/free water bottles/etc. and I would happily pay an additional fee to not sit in traffic.

 

If I read the thread the permanent number thing seems to be a non starter for the organisers. It seems that the idea that someone with a permanent number would show up without paying an entry fee is unpalatable. Yes this would happen, and I guess it would need Gauteng Province to agree to some sanction of these riders to deal with anyone who was caught abusing their permanent number status. Somehow this is not an issue at running events.

 

Here's my 2c worth-

 

1. Gauteng Province is probably not going to take the lead here - maybe one day they will lend a hand, but until then I think there's an opportunity for someone to use this to differentiate their events from the herd.

 

2. Early entries should be better for the race organisers, and will give an opportunity to get numbers to participants. I assume that race entries close at the last minute in an effort to get the entry numbers up, but maybe if you (or I) don't have to arrange to be in Fourways, or Krugersdorp, or Benoni during your lunch break on a Thursday to enter the event you may get more entries. How about an early close for entries with numbers delivered to the entrant.

 

3. Take my money - there is a huge, very efficient and very competitive delivery network in South Africa. You could deliver by Postnet for R100 (including the goodie bag I don't want) without having to negotiate the price. Must be possible to send me a single sheet of paper for an extra R50 (I'm already paying R400 and giving up a chunk of my day to enter the event so the fee is not the issue for me).

 

4. Final thought - a barcoded permanent number would give organisers an opportunity to scan entrants in to the start chute and confirm their payment. If you're hosting 6 events a year this might be an interesting option. If you're Racetec maybe this could be a service?

[dev null]

I still say, go for permanent numbers via CSA. Those riders that do not yet have CSA membership, can get temp numbers through race organisers. Maybe that will encourage riders who race often to get registered for permanent numbers.

 

The batching is an issue though then. Maybe using QR codes on the race number. Scanners at chutes can then confirm if rider belongs in that batch. But that might cause queues at race starts.

[scotty]

I still say, go for permanent numbers via CSA. Those riders that do not yet have CSA membership, can get temp numbers through race organisers. Maybe that will encourage riders who race often to get registered for permanent numbers.

 

The batching is an issue though then. Maybe using QR codes on the race number. Scanners at chutes can then confirm if rider belongs in that batch. But that might cause queues at race starts.

With increased technology comes increased entry costs. 

 

You never going to please everyone. 

 

I repeat CSA need to get their act together. I pay my CSA and prov fees and see absolutely no benefit. Watch them at a race, they stand around chatting at the start, wait for the winners from each lic batch to finish then walk off leaving 90% of riders still out there.

 

BUT I want to be reimbursed/paid for my "effort" and take my slice of your entry fee thank you. 

[Frosty]

Having sat back and thought about it again - the 

 

With increased technology comes increased entry costs. 

 

You never going to please everyone. 

 

I repeat CSA need to get their act together. I pay my CSA and prov fees and see absolutely no benefit. Watch them at a race, they stand around chatting at the start, wait for the winners from each lic batch to finish then walk off leaving 90% of riders still out there.

 

BUT I want to be reimbursed/paid for my "effort" and take my slice of your entry fee thank you. 

Those CSA officials aren't there for you - they are only there for the licensed riders. Their sole responsibility is to enforce (or try to) the rules of cycling at each race. They are licence holders just like the riders.

 

The CSA you are referring to are the career aspiring people that collect our fees and... [fill in what you want here].

[Frosty]

I still say, go for permanent numbers via CSA. Those riders that do not yet have CSA membership, can get temp numbers through race organisers. Maybe that will encourage riders who race often to get registered for permanent numbers.

 

The batching is an issue though then. Maybe using QR codes on the race number. Scanners at chutes can then confirm if rider belongs in that batch. But that might cause queues at race starts.

That was a suggestion made to the region I'm with - and they liked that idea. Then they realised they had blinkers on and the lateral thinking was replaced by "but, what if... or but, how will...".

 

The same can be done for online entries - late entries will not be placed in the "seeded groups". This should be enough of an incentive to enter on time, but then riders that enter late demand to be placed in a seeded group - or threaten to not enter unless they want get a good seeding. If you want to be seeded, then enter on time. This should be the case for the current system or a new (permanent number) system. People want their cake and eat it.

 

On the subject of scanners - the help at the start is already stretched thin, not to mentioned having to deal with the riders wanting to into the batches. The permanent number system can work - there is no other reason to use it other than to identify a rider (linked to his personal details, or to the start list in the case of licensed riders).

[scotty]

Having sat back and thought about it again - the 

 

Those CSA officials aren't there for you - they are only there for the licensed riders. Their sole responsibility is to enforce (or try to) the rules of cycling at each race. They are licence holders just like the riders.

 

The CSA you are referring to are the career aspiring people that collect our fees and... [fill in what you want here].

That's the point, they are CSA  representatives. if they are there for the Lic guys why can they not do number collection for the Lic guys then on race day it not like there are 1000's of lic riders, the fast one there were only around 400 in total, spread this out over collections and it is easy to do.. If the CSA officials are there ONLY for the lic guys, why do the others (Open) have to pay anything for ? 

 

After my post last week asking who or what is East Rand cycling i sent a email to CSA for info, NOTHING not even a F U back. 

[Speeltyd]

I hope I am not out of sync here.

Collecting numbers/seeding stickers is a pain.

Why not all organisers share a central DB of participating stores (LBS') - eg restricted to one per suburb/small town. When you register, you select your preferred local/nearest LBS/Pickup Point, and numbers/stickers get couriered to those stores.

Perhaps the stores can even pay a small fee to be on the list as it brings feet to the shop.