#numbercollectionsmustfall : PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

[Frosty]

That's the point, they are CSA  representatives. if they are there for the Lic guys why can they not do number collection for the Lic guys then on race day it not like there are 1000's of lic riders, the fast one there were only around 400 in total, spread this out over collections and it is easy to do.. If the CSA officials are there ONLY for the lic guys, why do the others (Open) have to pay anything for ? 

I understand your point, and no point arguing when we both agree.

 

 

BTW, here is what the rule book say about a commissaire:

4 Commissaires

(numbering of articles modified on 1.01.05).

(articles 1.1.112 and 1.1.122 abrogated on 1.01.04, the previous article 1.1.125 on 1.01.05)

1.1.047 The commissaire is an official appointed by the UCI or a national federation to ensure that cycling events comply with the provisions of the regulations that may apply.

1.1.048 Commissaires, both individually and/or in a panel shall direct the sporting aspects of cycling events and ensure that the event be in all respects conducted according to the regulations. They shall, in particular, ensure that the regulations specific to a race, the manner in which it is conducted and all technical provisions relating thereto comply strictly with the applicable provisions of the regulations.

Commissaires shall record breaches of the regulations and pronounce the foreseen penalties.

1.1.049 The commissaires' panel shall comprise commissaires appointed to supervise a given cycling event.

It shall record decisions of individual commissaires and shall apply and/or confirm the penalties imposed.

1.1.050 Each commissaire shall act neutrally and independently. He may in no way be involved in the organisation of the race. He shall immediately decline his appointment if he is aware of any aspect that could cast doubt on his neutrality.

1.1.051 The title of commissaire shall be conferred by the national federation competent to issue his licence.

National federations shall determine the eligibility, status and functions of commissaires in accordance with the principles mentioned above.

1.1.052 Except where an exemption is granted by the UCI, a commissaire other than an UCI international commissaire may officiate only in the country of his national federation.

 

 

 

After my post last week asking who or what is East Rand cycling i sent a email to CSA for info, NOTHING not even a F U back. 

I've yet to receive a reply from CSA via email - easier to pick up the phone and call them.

 

 

After my post last week asking who or what is East Rand cycling i sent a email to CSA for info, NOTHING not even a F U back. 

I've yet to receive a reply from CSA via email - easier to pick up the phone and call them.

 

[Spinnekop]

On the subject of scanners - the help at the start is already stretched thin,

I saw 50-100 car attendants at Fast One. 

Use them to scan riders.  I'll happily pay R10 to a person scanning my number for "sakgeld" that to pay for a car guard.

 

Just a thought.

 

The point I am trying to get across is that there might be a few people (like the road rangers with the bikes) that will be willing to help scan and control batch entry system for a fee.

[Spinnekop]

I'm avidly following this topic - mostly because number collection in Gauteng is such a pain and because there are a number of events that I do not enter because I cannot manage the number collection (e.g. number collection during work hours and 2-3hour round trip to collect).  I do not care for the goodie bags/free water bottles/etc. and I would happily pay an additional fee to not sit in traffic.

 

If I read the thread the permanent number thing seems to be a non starter for the organisers. It seems that the idea that someone with a permanent number would show up without paying an entry fee is unpalatable. Yes this would happen, and I guess it would need Gauteng Province to agree to some sanction of these riders to deal with anyone who was caught abusing their permanent number status. Somehow this is not an issue at running events.

 

Here's my 2c worth-

 

1. Gauteng Province is probably not going to take the lead here - maybe one day they will lend a hand, but until then I think there's an opportunity for someone to use this to differentiate their events from the herd.  Nope they are not.  And that is why we are still talking and not doing.......7 years later.  Because everyone is sitting and waiting for the CSA or province.  Fact is they don't give a diddly squat about us and our funrides. 

PPA as a club DID something.  And it works.  And they have the numbers to show it.

 

 

4. Final thought - a barcoded permanent number would give organisers an opportunity to scan entrants in to the start chute and confirm their payment. If you're hosting 6 events a year this might be an interesting option. If you're Racetec maybe this could be a service?  Good idea! 

I have long time said.....CSA gives us "funriders" no added value. 

They only hold a sword over the organiser's head because licensed riders can't participate if the race is not sanctioned.

 

But what if......

If a willing BUSINESSMAN creates a series where you DON'T have to be part of CSA.  Gerald....you have more knowledge on this.....can you get provincial road authorisation without CSA sanctioning? 

 

I digress. 

Create a series outside CSA where you can race.  Have a seeding system.  One race number.  "One club" if you really want

So say.....what.....the 4 mentioned, maybe 5 mentioned races / race organisers "submit" to one entry system.  One number gets given.  One seeding system gets used.  One set results for the series.

 

I'll gladly give my CSA membership up to partake in some serious local racing.  (Like PPA members in effect did once upon a time)

Eventually CSA will listen and come to the party.  No?

 

Anyway.  All talk. 

 

Strange how MTB races can do JUST THAT with one series, one system, one race number and still turn a profit and grow the participant numbers and road cycling is just to "dumb" to copy that.........

[scotty]

 

 

I've yet to receive a reply from CSA via email - easier to pick up the phone and call them.

 

 

I've yet to receive a reply from CSA via email - easier to pick up the phone and call them.

I prefer to have something in writing, otherwise its a I say/you say and why have the email contact as option if its just ignored. 

[scotty]

Not on number collection but still CSA related. As long as you a member of a club you can buy a full license which means except for a few exceptions like CTCT and 947 any Tom,****, Harry or Jane can buy a lic and race in lic groups. I heard at one time this was to be cleared up and riders would be verified but a quick look at the some of the tail ender's times for the fast one and their previous results reflects otherwise. But i presume the extra income received for buying a full lic counts more. 

[Frosty]

Not on number collection but still CSA related. As long as you a member of a club you can buy a full license which means except for a few exceptions like CTCT and 947 any Tom,****, Harry or Jane can buy a lic and race in lic groups. I heard at one time this was to be cleared up and riders would be verified but a quick look at the some of the tail ender's times for the fast one and their previous results reflects otherwise. But i presume the extra income received for buying a full lic counts more.

Yip, nothing stopping you from buying a licence - except a sharp club administrator that doesn't approve anyone that isn't a club member.

[dev null]

Just paid R640 yesterday for my son's domestic racing licence. Where does all that money go?

[scotty]

Yip, nothing stopping you from buying a licence - except a sharp club administrator that doesn't approve anyone that isn't a club member.

There is actually, ethics and standards, I am simply not good enough.

 

Having a racing lic should be something one qualifies for not purchased merely to get an early start at races only to get overtaken by blue rinse grannies on shopping bikes. 

[Frosty]

I have received a few suggestions, and after a little brain storming I think a workable solution has been found that won't affect the current way of registration too much.

 

I will share this with a few people in the business (two race organizers, some race officials, a race office and a few selected bike shops) to see if they share the same enthusiasm I have.

 

If you can read between the lines, you'll understand that bike shops are involved, but not at the same level as they currently are.

 

If we get the okay from each of these stakeholders, I'm sure we can implement a trial at one or two races - for the "registration/collection" of numbers. Phase two would kick in when a permanent number is issued and the phase one activities can be proven to work.

 

Details? Give it some time, the resistance needs to be convinced that it can work.

[Patchelicious]

I have received a few suggestions, and after a little brain storming I think a workable solution has been found that won't affect the current way of registration too much.

 

I will share this with a few people in the business (two race organizers, some race officials, a race office and a few selected bike shops) to see if they share the same enthusiasm I have.

 

If you can read between the lines, you'll understand that bike shops are involved, but not at the same level as they currently are.

 

If we get the okay from each of these stakeholders, I'm sure we can implement a trial at one or two races - for the "registration/collection" of numbers. Phase two would kick in when a permanent number is issued and the phase one activities can be proven to work.

 

Details? Give it some time, the resistance needs to be convinced that it can work.

And we have a responsibility to support the trial.

We need to support the crap out of it if we have a hope in hell to get the ball rolling.

 

Edit: Thanks G btw ????

[Jurgens Smit]

Why can't there be a courier option?

 

I would happily pay the extra fee to get my number delivered to me.

 

It is a more simple option than trying to reform the entire thing (not that it's a bad idea)

[Frosty]

Why can't there be a courier option?

 

I would happily pay the extra fee to get my number delivered to me.

 

It is a more simple option than trying to reform the entire thing (not that it's a bad idea)

For a number of years a courier option was available for CCMNC - and the most that ever took that option was 94 people out of 3000. The last time it was offered (Feb2016) there were 27. With the move back to Cycle Events, and two events it one year we had to compromise on a few "nice-to-haves".

 

At an extra cost, a few would take the option - while others that don't want it could perceive it as "the organiser making more money", or simply too expensive.

 

The solution I want to discuss with a few stake holders also includes a courier option (at a cost of course), but the objective is to keep costs the same, or less.

 

Now it's up to me to convince the relevant parties that it can work, and "they" will still have their power to "control" the process. When one negotiates, a successful transaction must have a win-win situation for both parties (or more parties in this case) - it's just the % difference that could vary, and I'll happily lose the battle if it means winning the war.

 

One of the pieces of the puzzle is to allow the process the remain as is, for those that that get a thrill out of driving to the fixed number collection points. It will change, but they won't notice the change - if that makes sense.

[Spinnekop]

Why can't there be a courier option?

 

I would happily pay the extra fee to get my number delivered to me.

 

It is a more simple option than trying to reform the entire thing (not that it's a bad idea)

Been there, done that.

 

Extra R150-250 and they arrive late or dont deliver correctly etc.

so it failed

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spinnekop]

One of the pieces of the puzzle is to allow the process the remain as is, for those that that get a thrill out of driving to the fixed number collection points. It will change, but they won't notice the change - if that makes sense.

Sounds interesting.

 

I still cannot think there are people that WANT to go to a shop to collect a piece of paper.

Are they so desperate to leave the office?

 

Looking forward to change. Thank you for trying something new Gerald!!

 

 

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[Elvis]

????????????????????????. Please!!!!

[Spinnekop]

So another year gone.  Welcome to 2018.

Just adding to the "new" thread about printing numbers......

 

So we can catch cheats taking short cut in a race or doing an event double but we can't "catch" someone doing a race illegal.

 

Patch mentioned printing at home will increase the cheats.

If a person wants to cheat he'll cheat.  With or without a number.  

 

People enter or ride races for ONE reason.  Seeding.

So if you did not pay, you won't get a seeding.  And you get a DQ for the year.  

Easy.

 

Give me a number for the year and off we go.