MTN Mountain Bike Seeding

[bored girl]

 

The thing is' date=' you should not need to proof yourself, irrespective of distance or discipline. If you brag about any accomplishment (irrespective of distance) you have a screw loose somewhere according to me.

 

?

 

Enjoy your personal accomplishments for the sake of enjoying it, not to impress arbitrary strangers.

 

?

 

?

[/quote']

 

 

 

And there it is. Exactly what started the discussion/argument.

 

 

 

And no idea why you bringing GreyOwl into this. But let me ask you....did he prepare for worlds by doing short distance races? And also (I can't say I've read every topic on the hub so I might be mistaken) has he ever boasted about his achievements? You know his got something to be proud of and so do a lot of people. Exactly the point I was trying to make. No need to rub it in people's faces.

 

 

 

And yes everyone to their own. Let everyone do what they enjoy. I love doing short races. You finish early, the suffering ends faster and most of the times you get to see the long distance finish (unless Kevin Evans is racing then you get to see it while he passes you before the end). But there's no 30km MTB Worlds so imo there shouldn't be seeding for those even. And for the people that do the short distance and are good at them, the no seeding shouldn't be a problem. Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???

[GreyOwl3.0]

The thing is' date=' you should not need to proof yourself, irrespective of distance or discipline. If you brag about any accomplishment (irrespective of distance) you have a screw loose somewhere according to me.

 

Enjoy your personal accomplishments for the sake of enjoying it, not to impress arbitrary strangers.

 

 

[/quote']

And there it is. Exactly what started the discussion/argument.

And no idea why you bringing GreyOwl into this. But let me ask you....did he prepare for worlds by doing short distance races? And also (I can't say I've read every topic on the hub so I might be mistaken) has he ever boasted about his achievements? You know his got something to be proud of and so do a lot of people. Exactly the point I was trying to make. No need to rub it in people's faces.

And yes everyone to their own. Let everyone do what they enjoy. I love doing short races. You finish early, the suffering ends faster and most of the times you get to see the long distance finish (unless Kevin Evans is racing then you get to see it while he passes you before the end). But there's no 30km MTB Worlds so imo there shouldn't be seeding for those even. And for the people that do the short distance and are good at them, the no seeding shouldn't be a problem. Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???

 

Seeding is a funny thing (sorry, I just caught the tail end of this thread so I might be posting out of context)

Seeding it seems everyone has a problem with. I did last year when I wanted to ride in an earlier group in the FastOne. Even to the point that I used a rather stupid chirp trying to assert my cycling ability! But, at the end of the day, I had to ride in the cat designated to me because I had not done an event in a few years, so they had no seeding for me.

My time at that FastOne was good for the group I had started in, and again at 94.7. The seeding does actually work, because when I came to ride FastOne this year (with only the previous FastOne and 94.7 as recorded times) I was placed in VA. I was happy with this as this is the category I had been licenced to race in for 2009. Seems the seeding was spot on, coz I did not struggle to stay with the bunch and finished in the pack.

As for the length of different events and training...obviously nobody will train 100km of hills if they are wanting to do a 1500m track event. And vice versa. But, be warned roadies...coz I'm an overweight trackie finishing 100km events with you no problem!! (please read that as friendly humour)

 

Thing is, like it has been said nobody needs to prove themselves to anyone other than themselves...and this is where the seeding comes in to play. If you are meant to be in A, you'll be in A. Dont panic. If your meant to be in Z, you will be...just work at improving.

 

I know this is a bit longwinded, but years ago before the seeding came out cycling was a bit 'hit and miss'

I was on a team that entered for the Giro Del Capo, and we were declined for entry, but were allowed to ride the Argus as a consolation prize. I was happy with this, but was then informed that because I had never done an Argus before I would have to start at the back.

This was unfair, because we had no seeding to validate my protests, which were that just 5months earlier had been sent to race in the World Road Championships. The seeding was based on the then WPPA seeding and they would hear nothing of my wanting to race in A. Had we had the benefit of a proper seeding then, I would have raced in the category I was supposed to.

 

I'm a believer in the seeding of events, and like I said I'm possibly posting out of context here.

 

Just enjoy the fact your able to compete... 

[Guest Agteros]

And there it is. Exactly what started the discussion/argument.

And no idea why you bringing GreyOwl into this. But let me ask you....did he prepare for worlds by doing short distance races? And also (I can't say I've read every topic on the hub so I might be mistaken) has he ever boasted about his achievements? You know his got something to be proud of and so do a lot of people. Exactly the point I was trying to make. No need to rub it in people's faces.

And yes everyone to their own. Let everyone do what they enjoy. I love doing short races. You finish early' date=' the suffering ends faster and most of the times you get to see the long distance finish (unless Kevin Evans is racing then you get to see it while he passes you before the end). But there's no 30km MTB Worlds so imo there shouldn't be seeding for those even. And for the people that do the short distance and are good at them, the no seeding shouldn't be a problem. Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???[/quote']

 

BG, it is obvious that you think nothing of the short races and want to deny those who do them. Does your statement "Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???" not apply to all the longer races/ pro riders as well (where there are weekend warriors and wannabes as well) as well as riders with exceptional abilities and speed?

 

Maybe, just MAYBE seeding is needed MORE in the lower ranks / shorter races solely because of the lower skills and abilities of the riders that will fill those chutes.

 

For enjoyment by all, surely it will be better to have those with better skills/speed to start before those who will 'waddle all over the trail', irrespective of the race distance. It will keep everyone out of each others hair, keep the participants coming back, and ensure bigger races, which is good for the sponsors of the events!

 

	Rank	A	B	C	D
Ultra (81km+)		100%	90%	80%	70%
Marathon (51-80km)		90%	80%	70%	60%
1/2 Marathon (36-50km)		80%	70%	60%	50%

 

Seeding for MTB penalises you by applying a factor to your seeding based on the distance and importance of the race (as shown above). Also, the seeding for older races decreases, so somebody who did a few races 18 months ago will have to work to get to the earlier batches (as fitness increases again?) So the chances of a rider who does short races exclusively to land up with the A or B batches on the longer rides are EXTREMELY slim, if not non-existing, but it will still sort the short D riders from the short A riders.... Still a win-win!

[bored girl]

 

Seeding it seems everyone has a problem with. I did last year when I wanted to ride in an earlier group in the FastOne. Even to the point that I used a rather stupid chirp trying to assert my cycling ability!

 

 

 

Did you brag?

[bored girl]

BG' date=' it is obvious that you think nothing of the short races and want to deny those who do them.?Does your statement "Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???"?not apply to all the longer races/ pro riders as well (where there are weekend warriors and wannabes as well) as well as riders with exceptional abilities and speed?

 

?

Maybe, just MAYBE?seeding is needed MORE in the lower ranks / shorter races solely because of the lower skills and abilities of the riders that will fill those chutes.

?

 

For enjoyment by all, surely it will be better to have those with better skills/speed to start before those who will 'waddle all over the trail', irrespective of the race distance.?It will keep everyone out of each others hair, keep the participants coming back, and ensure bigger races, which is good for the sponsors of the events!

?

 

Seeding for MTB penalises you by applying a factor to your seeding based on the distance and importance of the race (as shown above). Also, the seeding for older races decreases, so somebody who did a few races?18 months ago will have to work to get to the earlier batches (as fitness increases again?)?So the chances of a rider who does short races exclusively to land up with the A or B batches on the longer rides are EXTREMELY slim, if not non-existing, but it will still sort the short D riders from the short A riders.... Still a win-win!

[/quote']

 

 

 

Agteros, it is obvious that you have missed the more than once occasion on which I have mentioned that I do the short races and actually like doing them. But because I like doing them I am not wondering why my seeding is crap.

 

 

 

And as to the pro comment, I don't particularly enjoy watching the pros load from the front, after I've been standing in the pen for 45min and they've used that time for warming up or something of sorts. So yes I'd love to see them not being able to load from the front and start from wherever. Unfortunately that won't ever happen.   

 

 

 

There is a flaw in the system for sure. But it's only the beginning and hopefully it will get better. No one likes people standing in front of them that they believe are slow. No one likes people pushing in front. For people that do that, please God, give us seeding. Then they might rock up on time to load into their bunch. I have nothing against seeding. I have nothing against short races. I do however have something against people that like to blow their own horn and like to think they are better than others.

 

 

 

 

[GreyOwl3.0]

Seeding it seems everyone has a problem with. I did last year when I wanted to ride in an earlier group in the FastOne. Even to the point that I used a rather stupid chirp trying to assert my cycling ability!

Did you brag?

 

You know what, I guess I did...and it was stupid of me because the rules applied to me. So, at the end of the day I looked like a to$$er to anyone around.

 

I agree that loading from the front is bad, especially if like you said you have been waiting around for 45min and then they just come and load at their last minute. That should be marshalled better IMO...

[Trubie]

The thing is' date=' you should not need to proof yourself, irrespective of distance or discipline. If you brag about any accomplishment (irrespective of distance) you have a screw loose somewhere according to me.

 

Enjoy your personal accomplishments for the sake of enjoying it, not to impress arbitrary strangers.

 

 

[/quote']

And there it is. Exactly what started the discussion/argument.

And no idea why you bringing GreyOwl into this. But let me ask you....did he prepare for worlds by doing short distance races? And also (I can't say I've read every topic on the hub so I might be mistaken) has he ever boasted about his achievements? You know his got something to be proud of and so do a lot of people. Exactly the point I was trying to make. No need to rub it in people's faces.

And yes everyone to their own. Let everyone do what they enjoy. I love doing short races. You finish early, the suffering ends faster and most of the times you get to see the long distance finish (unless Kevin Evans is racing then you get to see it while he passes you before the end). But there's no 30km MTB Worlds so imo there shouldn't be seeding for those even. And for the people that do the short distance and are good at them, the no seeding shouldn't be a problem. Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???

 

Seeding is a funny thing (sorry, I just caught the tail end of this thread so I might be posting out of context)

Seeding it seems everyone has a problem with. I did last year when I wanted to ride in an earlier group in the FastOne. Even to the point that I used a rather stupid chirp trying to assert my cycling ability! But, at the end of the day, I had to ride in the cat designated to me because I had not done an event in a few years, so they had no seeding for me.

My time at that FastOne was good for the group I had started in, and again at 94.7. The seeding does actually work, because when I came to ride FastOne this year (with only the previous FastOne and 94.7 as recorded times) I was placed in VA. I was happy with this as this is the category I had been licenced to race in for 2009. Seems the seeding was spot on, coz I did not struggle to stay with the bunch and finished in the pack.

As for the length of different events and training...obviously nobody will train 100km of hills if they are wanting to do a 1500m track event. And vice versa. But, be warned roadies...coz I'm an overweight trackie finishing 100km events with you no problem!! (please read that as friendly humour)

 

Thing is, like it has been said nobody needs to prove themselves to anyone other than themselves...and this is where the seeding comes in to play. If you are meant to be in A, you'll be in A. Dont panic. If your meant to be in Z, you will be...just work at improving.

 

I know this is a bit longwinded, but years ago before the seeding came out cycling was a bit 'hit and miss'

I was on a team that entered for the Giro Del Capo, and we were declined for entry, but were allowed to ride the Argus as a consolation prize. I was happy with this, but was then informed that because I had never done an Argus before I would have to start at the back.

This was unfair, because we had no seeding to validate my protests, which were that just 5months earlier had been sent to race in the World Road Championships. The seeding was based on the then WPPA seeding and they would hear nothing of my wanting to race in A. Had we had the benefit of a proper seeding then, I would have raced in the category I was supposed to.

 

I'm a believer in the seeding of events, and like I said I'm possibly posting out of context here.

 

Just enjoy the fact your able to compete... 

tsk tsk tsk

all this and wisdom............

[pbrizzolari]

BG' date=' it is obvious that you think nothing of the short races and want to deny those who do them.?Does your statement "Surely they are better than all the weekend warriors and overtake them???"?not apply to all the longer races/ pro riders as well (where there are weekend warriors and wannabes as well) as well as riders with exceptional abilities and speed?

 

?

Maybe, just MAYBE?seeding is needed MORE in the lower ranks / shorter races solely because of the lower skills and abilities of the riders that will fill those chutes.

?

 

For enjoyment by all, surely it will be better to have those with better skills/speed to start before those who will 'waddle all over the trail', irrespective of the race distance.?It will keep everyone out of each others hair, keep the participants coming back, and ensure bigger races, which is good for the sponsors of the events!

?

 

Seeding for MTB penalises you by applying a factor to your seeding based on the distance and importance of the race (as shown above). Also, the seeding for older races decreases, so somebody who did a few races?18 months ago will have to work to get to the earlier batches (as fitness increases again?)?So the chances of a rider who does short races exclusively to land up with the A or B batches on the longer rides are EXTREMELY slim, if not non-existing, but it will still sort the short D riders from the short A riders.... Still a win-win!

[/quote']

 

 

 

Agteros, it is obvious that you have missed the more than once occasion on which I have mentioned that I do the short races and actually like doing them. But because I like doing them I am not wondering why my seeding is crap.

 

 

 

And as to the pro comment, I don't particularly enjoy watching the pros load from the front, after I've been standing in the pen for 45min and they've used that time for warming up or something of sorts. So yes I'd love to see them not being able to load from the front and start from wherever. Unfortunately that won't ever happen.   

 

 

 

There is a flaw in the system for sure. But it's only the beginning and hopefully it will get better. No one likes people standing in front of them that they believe are slow. No one likes people pushing in front. For people that do that, please God, give us seeding. Then they might rock up on time to load into their bunch. I have nothing against seeding. I have nothing against short races. I do however have something against people that like to blow their own horn and like to think they are better than others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Bored-Girl,

 

 

 

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with blowing your own horn occasionally. I did after finishing 65th in my first mtb race. My friends understood that I was proud of what i'd done and shared in my happiness. I think it's only a problem when it is habitual.

 

 

 

I would also be proud to be able to keep up with Mannie for 5mins. The man is fast!

[Wannabe]

Can't get my seeding on the Website, but received my start group for Argus 55km ride. BA, starting at 08h40. Presume that it is B bunch!?

[Gravity Sux]

Just been looking through the seedings and noticed the following. Vet men top 100,

 

97	JACQUES MALAN	34.81
97	CORRIE MULLER	34.81
98	MARTIN PUZEY	34.93

 

 

Only result for JACQUES MALAN / CORRIE MULLER, Sani2c race in

11:38:43

Only result for MARTIN PUZEY, Sani2c adventure in 13:05:26

 

Hopefully these are just teething problems. Here is the answer to those who want to improve their seeding index, make sure you enter the Sani2c adventure and not the race. That way you can go 85 minutes end with the same index as riders finishing 85 minutes faster than you in the race

Gravity Sux2010-02-28 15:42:40