Full racing license for 2011

[Harry Potter]

I agree with all the categories. Some amateurs do have the ability to race with the pro's and give them a run for their money (just because you are not getting paid to ride a bike does not mean you can't ride like you are). If you are good enough you should have the option of racing with the pro's. Other guys of the same ability prefer rather racing amateurs - these guys should have the option to choose racing in the VET category (as an example) OR elite (pro's).

 

All things said, I agree with strength vs strength with seperate provision made for juniors and vets to race each other if they wish to.

Keep the pro’s separate and in the other Full license vet groups try identify riders that will be able to ride with the pro’s and invite them to ride there

[DB28]

I have heard a little bird wistle that there are some changes being made to that PDF doc.....

GOOD changes!

 

 

Let's see what pops out.........

 

wonder if the little ripples made by the hub were felt by the big fish then???

[Seandmerida96]

I agree with a lot of the propasals but not with outlaying another R150 or whatever on a chip. Can't CSA contract one of the timing companies to time all CSA events. I have enough chips to rival Simba and have paid for most of them.

[scotty]

I agree with a lot of the propasals but not with outlaying another R150 or whatever on a chip. Can't CSA contract one of the timing companies to time all CSA events. I have enough chips to rival Simba and have paid for most of them.

Not sure this is a good idea, having only 1 timing company will dilute competition, my gripe is that racetec are already displaying anti competitve behaviour by getting race orgs to use only their chips for seeding in Argus/94.7 races.

[Andyr249]

Not sure this is a good idea, having only 1 timing company will dilute competition, my gripe is that racetec are already displaying anti competitve behaviour by getting race orgs to use only their chips for seeding in Argus/94.7 races.

 

I agree. All races should be used, not just only races which have been timed by one company.

 

Personally I think that the current categories is not too bad. All we really need in order to get up to international standards is to refine the U23/Elite races. The categories are fine, but the U23/Elites need to race longer than 150km. Bring that more inline with international races and it will be much more beneficial. Also make that category open for all comers. If you think you can race 150km plus as an individual whatever your age then you should be allowed to. That is going to get more South Africans into international racing, not changing some Vets categories. Of course the system needs some tweaking, like using all races for seeding all other races instead of just from Racetec, but to change the entire system is like the government changing the road names. Very nice but ultimately a waste of precious money that could be spent else where.

[Pundit]

for those interested I am reliably informed that the latest updates to the .pdf are identical to what andrew mclean proposed at the beginning of this post

[Spinnekop]

for those interested I am reliably informed that the latest updates to the .pdf are identical to what andrew mclean proposed at the beginning of this post

 

Also heard so.....should be interesting!

[Pundit]

although the revised system has its merits and i'm cautiously optimistic about it, i have a few questions / comments:

 

1. i still disagree with bringing Vets teams into Cat 1 - they should just ride as an elite team IMO.

 

2. also, factors such as safety (150-200 size bunches) on our roads etc. these are fine with full road closure but will be a challenge at many events.

 

3. a credible seeding system will be a challenge, particularly for 2011 which is just around the corner. Perhaps the changes should have been phased in for 2012 to allow the systems to be in place and better understood? If one wanted to form a Vets 30+ top team now time is very limited and i know top level Vets riders who have poor seeding right now as they live off the beaten path etc. The seeding system will need to be dynamic and allow movement up and down (faster than it currently works)

 

4. i do think the Vet scene is quite healthy right now and i wonder whether this system will have a negative impact on that? speculating but i have heard a number of Vets unhappy about changes to the system already (if it ain't broke...)

 

5. lastly, will this re-organisation raise the standard of elite riding. i am not convinced mixing a few vets in with the elites will do anything. if anything, they'll just make up numbers (in most cases). on the other hand, the system should help raise the juniors and the ladies standards - but not sure the vets system needed an overhaul for that reason

[Frosty]

Why is everything so "top secret" at CSA... where is their PR department???

 

Good news though, it the Andrew's proposal is similar to the NEW pdf.

 

 

[101%]

This is great news!!!! Strength versus strength is the way forward. I only hope that the seeding index is kept accurate . One doesn't want to race cat 2 one weekend and then find out the following weekend you've been seeded down in cat 4 after spending R200 on an entry. I hope there's some accurate way of monitoring your racing cat before you spend your money .

 

I'd still like to know how many 30+ vets teams want to race every weekend with the elites? How do these teams benifit the Pro's? I don't see 10 or 20 working class old toppies holding onto Malcoms wheel help improve elite racing. And!!! lets be honest! How many "REAL" vets 30+ teams are there? Most are self funded friends racing in the same kit. Do these so called vets teams race there repective categories at SA's or do they race elites?

 

Either way !! I'm in for "strength versus strength".

[Spinnekop]

Some ideas on your post Pundit........

 

 

 

 

1. i still disagree with bringing Vets teams into Cat 1 - they should just ride as an elite team IMO.

 

2. also, factors such as safety (150-200 size bunches) on our roads etc. these are fine with full road closure but will be a challenge at many events.

 

I heard that Vets Teams will be allowed to race Cat 1. But will have to comply to Elite rules and regulations etc.

That's fine by me.....if you want to race Elite, GO BOY! In effect they will be classified as Cat 1 team......

Hopefully the term "Vet" will die a silent death as this is a true South African invention just to make some money!!

The world out there knows us as "Masters" in different age cats......

 

 

3. a credible seeding system will be a challenge, particularly for 2011 which is just around the corner. Perhaps the changes should have been phased in for 2012 to allow the systems to be in place and better understood? If one wanted to form a Vets 30+ top team now time is very limited and i know top level Vets riders who have poor seeding right now as they live off the beaten path etc. The seeding system will need to be dynamic and allow movement up and down (faster than it currently works)

 

I think we are going to have to give them some slack on this one.

Rome was not built in one day.....at least they are trying to start something CENTRAL and not use a "third party?" i.e. Superseeding or PPA or what ever.

Once there is a database of 2011 race everything should fall in place.

For now I am happy if they use the same criteria as race organisers as this is what we as riders are used to.

Only now you won't be able to BUY yourself into Cat 2 or 3 but you actually have to have some good times in races done in 2009 and 2010! ALL GOOD IN MY BOOK!!!

 

 

4. i do think the Vet scene is quite healthy right now and i wonder whether this system will have a negative impact on that? speculating but i have heard a number of Vets unhappy about changes to the system already (if it ain't broke...)

 

Personally I hope the whole "Vets Scene" goes away......there are VC's that are faster than VA or even Elite!! Hell, Lance is a VB these days!!!

Category racing is KING....in Europe and in US.....why should SA re-invent the wheel?????

 

5. lastly, will this re-organisation raise the standard of elite riding. i am not convinced mixing a few vets in with the elites will do anything. if anything, they'll just make up numbers (in most cases). on the other hand, the system should help raise the juniors and the ladies standards - but not sure the vets system needed an overhaul for that reason

 

Well......have to agree.....the whole MISSION of this is to get SA on the world map of cycling yes? So they have to get system there that will help develop the "Cat 1" rider and then develop the "feeding into Cat 1" group to get the sport going:

• Longer races in Cat 1
  
• Races solely dedicated to Cat 1
  
• Prize money only in Cat 1
  
• Races during the week....crits, TT...whatever!
  

 

Again....hopefully "Vets" dies....If we get Cat racing you will be able to post better times and race with guys with equal ability!!! Not have a group of 10 guys ater 20km of racing!!!!

[Lucky Luke.]

This is great news!!!! Strength versus strength is the way forward. I only hope that the seeding index is kept accurate . One doesn't want to race cat 2 one weekend and then find out the following weekend you've been seeded down in cat 4 after spending R200 on an entry. I hope there's some accurate way of monitoring your racing cat before you spend your money .

 

I'd still like to know how many 30+ vets teams want to race every weekend with the elites? How do these teams benifit the Pro's? I don't see 10 or 20 working class old toppies holding onto Malcoms wheel help improve elite racing. And!!! lets be honest! How many "REAL" vets 30+ teams are there? Most are self funded friends racing in the same kit. Do these so called vets teams race there repective categories at SA's or do they race elites?

 

Either way !! I'm in for "strength versus strength".

 

I think the WP road race champ (Moolman Welgemoed) and the WP TT champ (Charles Soloman) both qualify to ride Vets proper, never mind Vets 30+. Also, isn't Malcolm halfway to Vets 40+ himself?

In terms of SV teams here, Daikin can definitely race elite.. the other teams .. some of the riders yes, other riders will struggle .. so that is a tricky one.

 

I'm with you though, I think cats based on performance, not age is the way to go.

[Spinnekop]

This is great news!!!! Strength versus strength is the way forward. I only hope that the seeding index is kept accurate . One doesn't want to race cat 2 one weekend and then find out the following weekend you've been seeded down in cat 4 after spending R200 on an entry. I hope there's some accurate way of monitoring your racing cat before you spend your money .

 

I hope they do the same as PPA...in a way....

"Seeding" happens every say 3 months.....you move up or down and will remain in your race cat for that period untill the next seeding run......

 

I'd still like to know how many 30+ vets teams want to race every weekend with the elites? How do these teams benifit the Pro's? I don't see 10 or 20 working class old toppies holding onto Malcoms wheel help improve elite racing. And!!! lets be honest! How many "REAL" vets 30+ teams are there? Most are self funded friends racing in the same kit.

 

Rumor has it Malcom is creating a Vets team for 2011. My theory is that this is the reason why CSA wants to force "Vets" into Cat 1.......because some of the big boys still wants to race there, get coverage, get prize money and fame and what ever.....

 

Do these so called vets teams race there repective categories at SA's or do they race elites?

 

Die vogeltjies say that despite riding in Cat 1 (Elite cat) they will compete in their respective age cats at SA's....

 

Did you see it is back in PE and in Feb?

[Trubie]

strenght vs strenght gets my vote for sure

I see a problem with the seeding though as now it takes forever to be updated, so if that doesnt change , its not really gonna work too well

 

they should also find a system which uses most recent results for seeding purposes as lotsa peeps dont race for months, but they have a seeding based on last year's races etc.. maybe they have a great solution

[DB28]

i wonder when CSA plan to officially announce these rules and regulations.... my bet is at least a month and a half still...

[scotty]

Cool no more "qualifying" to ride in vets by buying a lic just so you can have an early start time, but still being passed and then struggling to hold onto the wheel of blue rinse grannies with shopping basket bikes.