Does the hub/axle hang from or stand on the spokes ?

[The_Break]

En nou top whine ou boetie..... Wat maak jy met al hierdie kragte vektore las oordragte, kompresiie vs druk en vervorming as jy fietsry behalwe om jou ontwikkelende egotjie te streel dat jy hierdie wunderkind is wat die beste ding is wat fietsry ooit getref het

 

Big H, I have another theory I would like to test out. It is that you are actually just a trouble maker here on the Hub and provoke people so that you can get a response whilst you sit all alone there in Nigeria?

 

I have been watching your sarcastic remarks for some time now and that is why I told you off the other day. You are pissing people off so you can only expect them to want to take you on.

 

For goodness sakes, you are a grown man heading up what sounds like a large team of people on a huge project. Is this really the kind of leaders we have here or are you just BSing us on what you actually do? I really cannot say I have come across someone in very senior position that displays this kind of behaviour. To me you would not have gotten that high with that attitude.

 

But carry on, keep making comments like that if you like because sooner or later people realize the truth about people.

 

And Admin if you want to ban this post and me from the Hub then go right ahead. BUT, at least give others the opportunity to say what they feel in some kind of forum without you shutting it down cause sooner or later people just have enough.

[Wyatt Earp]

Johan is nie 'n onbetrokke party hier nie. Op verskeie ander "threads" het hy kommentaar gehad op hierdie spesifieke geval, en elke keer sy wielbou besigheid probeer adverteer deur te verkondig, of die indruk te probeer skep, dat hy 'n kundige is op die gebied van las oordrag, spannings en deformasie in fietswiele. Gaan lees gerus die betrokke "threads"

 

:clap: :clap:

I guess some are not as gullible as others.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Dangle

[Lounge Lizard]

'break','topwine', 'edam' ; this has been one of the better threads in a long time.

Very interesting to try and understand something so simple that keeps our faces of the tar daily.

thank you very much for your contributions

Edited December 16, 2010 by Lounge Lizard

[The_Break]

'break','topwine', 'edam' ; this has been one of the better threads in a long time.

Very interesting to try and understand something so simple that keeps out faces of the tar daily.

thank you very much for your contributions

 

Yeah it was a rather nice discussion. Also shows how dangerous ti can be to pull things from google without working fromm first principles.

 

I think we would have more nice threads like this if we did work from first principles step by step till we all came to the same conclusion. Hopefully the right one each time.

 

With that I am off to take my bike for some nice mountIN sceneray in the Cape.

Caio!

[eggsovereasywithteandtoast]

Is that Brooke Shields?

[Lounge Lizard]

Is that Brooke Shields?

 

Grandpa - get new glasses

 

- Its not about "brooke shields",

- its about stopping "broke wheels".....

[eggsovereasywithteandtoast]

- its about stopping "broke wheels".....

 

Then get a bank balance for them and a set of pads

[SwissVan]

Alas I read the whole thread and emerged only with a head rash induced by much head scratching

 

All I know is that hubs don’t hang from or stand on anything, I would suggest that they are instead attached to the rim by spokes and connected to the frame via an axle, skewer and recesses on the frame (drop outs).

 

Quite spoking simple

[vanniri]

Being close to holiday time - no one on the hub have any deadlines to chase?

[Tumbleweed]

Being close to holiday time - no one on the hub have any deadlines to chase?

 

Nope, we're all just hanging, er, on the hub…

[Brian Fantana]

In my 1st year at university my lecturer had two bicycle wheels which he used to demonstrate this concept. The one wheel had normal spokes while the other one had cables instead of spokes. It was special cables with a stop on one end and a threaded stub on the other. This shows that spokes above the hub undergo tensile stress, which in turn plays to the strength of a spoke(a spoke has high tensile strength and low compessive strength). Have to mention that this was one of the more civilised discussions on the hub.

[Guest agteros]

Indeed it was, and thanks to all who explained in non-engineering talk for the rest of us to follow. Not sure what to do with this new-found knowledge. Maybe start up a trivia channel on IRC and make this one of the questions on there

[Eldron]

In my 1st year at university my lecturer had two bicycle wheels which he used to demonstrate this concept. The one wheel had normal spokes while the other one had cables instead of spokes. It was special cables with a stop on one end and a threaded stub on the other. This shows that spokes above the hub undergo tensile stress, which in turn plays to the strength of a spoke(a spoke has high tensile strength and low compessive strength). Have to mention that this was one of the more civilised discussions on the hub.

 

Best post of the thread. I'm on the "hanging" side of the debate.

 

Years ago there were some mtb disc wheels using wire as the spoke material. As Stephan says a wire wheel works but wire is terrible in compression - it'll couldn't hold a 80kg weight BUT wire could easily hold several times 80kg in tension.

 

Now tell me whether a wheels "hangs" or "stands".

[Topwine]

 

Now tell me whether a wheels "hangs" or "stands".

Just to confuse everybody again, ,

 

You get "standing" wheels as well, think ox wagon wheels. Those hubs actually stands on their wooden spokes, quite different from a modern bicycle wheel's hub which "hangs" from its spokes.

[Johan Bornman]

In my 1st year at university my lecturer had two bicycle wheels which he used to demonstrate this concept. The one wheel had normal spokes while the other one had cables instead of spokes. It was special cables with a stop on one end and a threaded stub on the other. This shows that spokes above the hub undergo tensile stress, which in turn plays to the strength of a spoke(a spoke has high tensile strength and low compessive strength). Have to mention that this was one of the more civilised discussions on the hub.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "this concept", since you didn't include a quote or reference and my comment may thus be off.

 

However, there is no difference between a wire-spoked wheel and a cable spoked wheel. Both wheels support the load in tension and the spokes/cables never go into compression and in fact, can't go into compression. I don't comprehend what the lecturer tried to show.

[Johan Bornman]

 

When you load the wheel the top and bottom spokes then increase and decrease their tension equally and respectively, whislt the left and right spokes increase their tension equally, yet are all still under an effective pull or tension force (corrected). The actual variation is a nice smooth positively offset sinus shaped graph as you move around the wheel with mean at the unloaded tension.

 

If this was not the case the spokes would be loose and the wheel would fall apart.

 

That is the basic way a wheel works anyhow.

 

I know you want to prove this theoretically but just try empirical data. Do the experiment. Load a wheel and meaure the change in tension top and bottom. You'll find that the model above is unworkable.

 

If you don't have a tensiometer, simply pluck and listen to the change in tone. It is a good indicator of relative tension in the wheel.

 

Secondly, using your model, explain what will happen to a wheel when the bike receives rear impact from say, a car. I'll then post photos to show what I observe happens.