Tokai Maintenance and Building

[Guest Omega Man]

More than anything that comes across as vindictive, hope as much effort goes into creating a viable solution?

Sorry if my frustration seems vindictive. I'm just so tired of hearing the same old pleas for patience and time and and and.

[Guest Omega Man]

Here fool. This is a screenshot to back up what I said yesterday.. Some of the trails you base all your facts on are costed, mapped and submitted for approval. I am still not lying about anything I have said..

 

The trails that are in disrepair have proved very useful to make our point as to why diverts are needed. You don't understand?? It is called sustainability and the designs of the trails from so many years ago were fine while we had trees. Could this be why the trails are looking so beaten??.. Because all the places you mention are felled blocks, without tree cover that are exposed to sun and rain.. They need to be diverted to continue to exist..

 

Can you start to see the differences between Jonkerhoek and Tokai yet?? There are so many ranging.. management, vegetation, users, change in in precinct function. Tell me when any of this starts to make sense.. see, you choose what you want to understand and if you don't know it, to you it is not happening.

 

The Cobra trail (the one at the top Duane..) is ready for it to be specced by the new section ranger, who is now ready to start attending to my requests.

 

 

This is the divert detail that has been submitted..

 

 

Omega Man, if you continue your tirade of misinformation caused by your general lack of understanding. You might be the one responsible for unravelling all the progress to date - AND by progress, I do not mean what you can see on the trail.

 

I am not ging to humour your list above... The rain has caused the damage and repairs are scheduled.. not by your doing!

Very nice. I'll apologize publicly if it happens.

[(Deon)]

Here is a detail of the bridge on Vasbyt the was due for repairs at the start of the year. For various reasons it has not happened yet, but work on the area continued regardless to slow the damage winter would bring. I saw during the rain that some of the wood structures had been removed and built into a sort-of jump. This wood was placed to reinforce the corner to prevent water eroding the junction to the bridge. Some one more knowledgable than me moved the wood but did not take into account winter!

 

Here is the bridge detail that has been approved, but cost is currently an issue if sustainability of the other trails are a priority for Parks. This project will pick up as soon as we know what budget remains after Cobra, Rinkhals, Mamba and other areas of Vasbyt have been attended to.

 

[(Deon)]

Very nice. I'll apologize publicly if it happens.

 

Too late if it happens.. then we can all ride your apology.

[mtbsurfer]

To the guys giving gears to bluehubs. He's right. Go up there and look at the place objectively.

 

I rode Tokai yesterday and I agree with him completely. The entrance to DH1 is a mess. The snake trails have zero flow because they've not had any maintenance done in years. And there hasn't been a single new trail built on that mountain since I don't know when.

 

The trails are in a SHOCKING DISGUSTING state. When Botes was in charge I was under the impression that he was the roadblock but he has been gone since Feb and there has been one build day. And that build day was only to apease the downhillers.

 

The only meaningful maintenance that's been done there in the last 4 years is on the downhill track and that's only cos Vince bitches and moans until something gets done.

 

The last time paid maintence was done was on the divert on my roots and a little divert on the top snake trail. If I was a crosscountry rider i'd be livid to ride there. The ONLY 2 reasons people ride there is because it's convenient or they don't know any better. Cos let's be clear on this. It's not good.

 

Jonkershoek charges less and has far fewer riders and yet still manages to have maintained trails and expansions.

 

I've asked Deon on numerous occasions that a SCHEDULED monthly build day be set up and nothing. Just the usual nodding and pleads for patience

 

The wood cutters are up there on a daily basis with their bakkies choping up logs that we should be using for jumps and features and we just stand by and listen to bullsh!t explanation after bullsh!t explanation.

 

The fact is Tokai is an embarrasment to mountain biking. The trails are in a disgusting state and the person in charge of trail maintenace (Yes you Deon!) should do the honorable thing and allow someone who can actually get things done take over.

Well said OM !

Don't bother reasoning with these guys, i have tried it before. same excuses everytime ! and same mucho attitude.

Another DH extention built recently while the other trails are desperate for maintenance.

Ride in Jonkers if you want decent well maintained trails with awesome features.(see rock feature on new trail above the canaries !!!)

Ace of spades seem to be the guys involved, saw them working on yet another new trail on the weekend.

That is about 4 completely new trails in just a few months DH and XC.

No excuses and attitude from them, just well designed, flowing singletrack.

I cannot believe how fast those guys build.

 

All the discussions i read a while back about the snake eyes maintenance and how long it took etc

Please go and ride the neverending story rebuild or the new upper canary trail in jonkers and tell me that snake eyes is awesome, you have got to be kidding me !!!

Edited July 24, 2012 by mtbsurfer

[(Deon)]

Guys, please Jonkershoek and Tokai are two completely different entities. They have different owners to start. You cannot compare them.

 

Bennet does brilliant work there yes, but even he will vouch for the way it works in Tokai, it is just not the same..

 

There is no 'mucho attitude' here, damn, I want good trails as much as the next guy.. but I don't own the land. We have done the what is required to sustain the trail until there is a formal arrangement in place. This is the mandate assigned to us by parks as part of the short term repair until the rationalisation project is complete. We cannot just build new trails as is the perception of some, and throwing large amounts of money into trails that are up for review is just bad business practice and does not look after the interests of the sponsor.. please consider these factors.

 

A lot of this rant has been an attack on me and what I am doing on the trails. Just so that all can know, I am in a good standing with Parks and this counts for a lot. Many will choose to ignore this, but stuff like rogue building out of frustration has set us so far back in terms of goodwill that Parks are skeptical of our value to them.. It has taken me more than a year to build good trust and it is a success for all mountain bikers. One example is that we got the last of those illegal trails closed. This one thing counted for so much confidence in us as a usergroup... and it was clear as day in my last meeting with Parks. (I say we because the riders are obviously part of the success, they stopped re-opening the closures and riding them in defiance. Do not ignore it as progress.)

Edited July 24, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[(Deon)]

 

Another DH extention built recently while the other trails are desperate for maintenance.

 

 

There it is again.. can't please everyone huh Omega Man??

[nishiki]

Guys, please Jonkershoek and Tokai are two completely different entities. They have different owners to start. You cannot compare them.

 

Bennet does brilliant work there yes, but even he will vouch for the way it works in Tokai, it is just not the same..

 

There is no 'mucho attitude' here, damn, I want good trails as much as the next guy.. but I don't own the land. We have done the what is required to sustain the trail until there is a formal arrangement in place. This is the mandate assigned to us by parks as part of the short term repair until the rationalisation project is complete. We cannot just build new trails as is the perception of some, and throwing large amounts of money into trails that are up for review is just bad business practice and does not look after the interests of the sponsor.. please consider these factors.

 

A lot of this rant has been an attack on me and what I am doing on the trails. Just so that all can know, I am in a good standing with Parks and this counts for a lot. Many will choose to ignore this, but stuff like rogue building out of frustration has set us so far back in terms of goodwill that Parks are skeptical of our value to them.. It has taken me more than a year to build good trust and it is a success for all mountain bikers. One example is that we got the last of those illegal trails closed. This one thing counted for so much confidence in us as a usergroup... and it was clear as day in my last meeting with Parks. (I say we because the riders are obviously part of the success, they stopped re-opening the closures and riding them in defiance. Do not ignore it as progress.)

 

Hello,

 

I've decided to log on here to voice my opinion regarding Tokai. I fully agree with Omega Man's post. I stopped riding at Tokai some months ago as the state of the park is becoming beyond repair. We used to love the freeflowing singletrack in the forests, and at one point, Tokai was really good.

 

All I'm reading from the above is excuse after excuse mixed with long winded bureaucratic nonsense. I don't particularly have the energy to dissect Deon's excuses above, since they stand out by themselves. The reason you have "illegal" trails at Tokai is through sheer boredom and lack of park development.

 

The "sponsors" get plenty of money out of the riders yet it takes years for anything to get done.

 

Deon, if you are in charge of seeing to the trails being cared for then you are doing a p!ss poor job of it. Something you'd be excellent at though is politics.

 

We've voted with our feet long ago, and frequent Jonkershoek and other venues where the craft of trailbuilding is still taken seriously. Other riders should do the same. Take your money elsewhere until SAN parks decides to look at MTB seriously.

 

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread, and I wait with baited breath to see some results.

 

Do you get paid by SAN parks?

[mtbsurfer]

Hello,

 

I've decided to log on here to voice my opinion regarding Tokai. I fully agree with Omega Man's post. I stopped riding at Tokai some months ago as the state of the park is becoming beyond repair. We used to love the freeflowing singletrack in the forests, and at one point, Tokai was really good.

 

All I'm reading from the above is excuse after excuse mixed with long winded bureaucratic nonsense. I don't particularly have the energy to dissect Deon's excuses above, since they stand out by themselves. The reason you have "illegal" trails at Tokai is through sheer boredom and lack of park development.

 

The "sponsors" get plenty of money out of the riders yet it takes years for anything to get done.

 

Deon, if you are in charge of seeing to the trails being cared for then you are doing a p!ss poor job of it. Something you'd be excellent at though is politics.

 

We've voted with our feet long ago, and frequent Jonkershoek and other venues where the craft of trailbuilding is still taken seriously. Other riders should do the same. Take your money elsewhere until SAN parks decides to look at MTB seriously.

 

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread, and I wait with baited breath to see some results.

 

Do you get paid by SAN parks?

 

Yes ! Exactly.

rationalisation, sustainability, mandates and approvals are all great but Parks are happy to take our money while we continue to ride badly maintained trails...

Looks like the biggest failure is the communication with parks!

Take a new approach or ask for help from someone with better communication skills or a bigger sponsor eg Redbull or big corporates...

Dude, make a plan because everyone can see that what you are doing is not working !!!

We need another representative onboard who has the interest of all riders at heart !

[mtbsurfer]

One more thing....

Who built the original trails in tokai in the first place ?

Why are they under review/question with parks?

This means they were not built with sustainability in mind in the beginning.

And why are Parks so keen to approve the two new DH trails which could cause more problems re: sustainability when they won't even allow the maintenance of the old trails ??? That doesn't make any sense at all.

[(Deon)]

One more thing....

Who built the original trails in tokai in the first place ?

Why are they under review/question with parks?

This means they were not built with sustainability in mind in the beginning.

And why are Parks so keen to approve the two new DH trails which could cause more problems re: sustainability when they won't even allow the maintenance of the old trails ??? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

You don't make sense. Have you tried reading.

 

Anyway. I've had enough. No I am not paid by parks, in fact I am not paid by anyone. As of tomorrow, please direct your questions and comments to someone else, over to you OM.

 

Cheers.

[david16v]

This is classic. I'm reading all this stuff from London and nothing has changed! Seems like no one can get through to PoS and his solo organisational meetings with sanparks!

 

Who elected you as spokesman? Where's your committee?

Have you got everyone's interests in mind?

 

.....And the list goes on with this amateur!

Edited July 24, 2012 by david16v

[mtbsurfer]

This is classic. I'm reading all this stuff from London and nothing has changed! Seems like no one can get through to PoS and his solo organisational meetings with sanparks!

 

Who elected you as spokesman? Where's your committee?

Have you got everyone's interests in mind?

 

.....And the list goes on with this amateur!

correct...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

okay, guys. This has now gone beyond ridiculous. Deon (Pain or Shine) has been liaising with Parks for a while now, and in the background (stuff you guys don't see) are the following problem areas which have made his (our) argument so much more difficult

 

1: Illegal trail building. This has been done through sheer bloody mindedness, entitlement as well as ignorance of the rules and regulations of the area itself. This is NOT privately owned land, and that means that the approval process for new trails, let alone maintenance of existing trails, is mired in beuracracy and takes LOADS of time

2: Change in management on the part of Sanparks. This happened in Feb/March this year. The previous manager, with whom Deon had negotiated to get A) more trust B) more scope C) more approval; did not provide any sort of take-over process to the new area manager, effectively giving her the keys and buggering off without any sort of background info whatsoever. She has spent the last 6 months trying to get through all the *** that was left to her. Vince can vouch for this.

3: Illegal entry. This is going to continue to be a bug-bear (for the moment) and the few manage to spoil it for the many by portraying an attitude of entitlement and ignorance, which has led, in the past, to Parks almost shunting MTB out of Tokai and carry on with the repopulation of Fynbos on the trails

4: Conservation. This is where we actually need to show the value of PROPERLY MAINTAINED trails, and the effect (or lack thereof) that they have on the mountain and the prevailing fynbos. People in PARKS are lobbying for the closure, yes, CLOSURE of trails that are in the middle of Fynbos, and in the areas where felling is to take place in the future, in order to repopulate the fynbos on the mountain

5: Erosion. Yes, some trails (Rinkhals / Cobra / Snake Eyes before the rebuild and still on the bottom section) were built without thought of the possibility of erosion due to the felling of trees. Therefore, they suffered as soon as the trees were taken away as they were exposed to the elements in all their destructive glory. For this reason, Rinkhals & DH3 (before the rebuild of DH3) were used as case studies for Parks in how a trail can be eroded if it is built incorrectly. Conservationinsts have used these trails to motivate their arguments for the total removal of trails from the Tokai area.

 

Those are just the problems on the surface. Deon, as AMARider rep (and NOT paid by Parks / TMNP / AMARider) is in constant talks with Parks on all these issues, and is lobbying against all the anti-mtb vibes, as well as lobbying for the refurbishment and revitalisation of trails, or, where the trails are too far gone for refurbishment (Cobra / Rinkhals) the diversion of those trails in order to make them both eco-friendly and awesome. You have seen some of the ideas here already.

 

Unfortunately, as we are dealing with a pseudo governmental organisation, the role that Deon is undertaking is somewhat like that of a politician. He has to lobby his cause, present proposals, provide studies which back up his claims, go to numerous meetings in order to negotiate with Parks as well as devote his personal time (to the expense of his monthly income, as he is not paid for any of this) in order to make sure that we, as MTBers, continue to have trails in the Tokai and Table mountain area.

 

Why have I typed this diatribe? I know what is happening in the background, and I know that Parks has given approval (and some funding) for projects IN TOKAI. I also know that there are numerous sponsors waiting in the background, determined to make Tokai (which is the destination that has arguably the BEST potential for MTB trails in CT, if not RSA) work, and work properly. Again, this will only be released once SANPARKS has given the go-ahead, which will, again, only be given once a FULL EIA (Environmental Impact Assessment) has been done, and they are happy with it. This is being done at the moment, and is taking a large amount of funding from a sponsor.

 

Let me say this now - NONE of you (apart from Kandui & Bennett) know how *** it is to deal with Parks in anything. Deon is doing this, AND IS SUCCEEDING, in order for all of us to be able to continue to ride trails. Progress is being made, regardless of what Omega Man says.

 

And, for a bit of perspective - Omega Man has just come back from Morzine. An area of the Alps that has privately run ski slopes that bring in enormous amounts of cash, that don't need to go to any other area other than Morzine. In addition, I guarantee that most of the money goes towards maintaining the existing infrastructure. Ski lifts. Trails. Staff incomes. ALL the income goes back into the trails in the summer months, which is why they can get the manicured trails that they have. They employ trail builders full time. In winter, snow falls on the trails, and the ground freezes. This effectively preserves the trails for summer, when the riding begins again. Again, this is the same reason that Jonkers enjoys trail building year round. THEY ARE PRIVATELY OWNED. NO BEURACRACY.

 

And riddle me this - would you be prepared to take on the same load that Deon has taken on, sacrificing your income? I thought not.

[(Deon)]

This is classic. I'm reading all this stuff from London and nothing has changed! Seems like no one can get through to PoS and his solo organisational meetings with sanparks!

 

Who elected you as spokesman? Where's your committee?

Have you got everyone's interests in mind?

 

.....And the list goes on with this amateur!

 

David, can always count on you to pop up at the most obscure moment. Ah, we know you miss us.

 

Sure, say what you must. As for many of you, you seem to have very little understanding on how to deal with a government department. Life is easy from your armchair thowing comments, right? Sure, go on then. I was told when I was appointed that this would not be easy but without patience we will get nowhere. Please go back and look at where this topic went. A certain amount of sense prevailed.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

This is classic. I'm reading all this stuff from London and nothing has changed! Seems like no one can get through to PoS and his solo organisational meetings with sanparks!

 

Who elected you as spokesman? Where's your committee?

Have you got everyone's interests in mind?

 

.....And the list goes on with this amateur!

 

You're not really being neutral here, and you've already put your stake in the ground by saying that you intentionally ride UP known Downhill only trails, ignoring trail etiquette. You've also motivated why you would gladly sneak in to the park in order to ride.

 

EDIT: And they're not solo, despite your assertions. Meurant, Bennett as well as various other AMA members have been in the meetings in the past. And get this - we are NOT the sole focus of TMNP. Fancy that?

Edited July 24, 2012 by Slowbee