Eldron

Just in time for my annual pilgrimage to the southern sun! Bring it ???? I've always enjoyed Modders - not challenging enough that you need to focus too much but challenging enough that you don't get bored - a fine chilled out endurance building track that is central to most people in Jhb. Winner winner.

I'm pretty sure Qhubeka is WBR's South African arm. The Buffalo bike is designed by WBR. WBR and Qhubeka. Same same.

100%! The irony of hating on people/isolating people/othering people is what got us into this mess in the first place seems lost on too many people...

Am I now supposed to answer with an equal but opposite extremism? So in a nuthshell your argument is that wins wins wins count and no other metric is needed for sponsorship? A whole team of roided up winning Moscons will get all the cash and the other teams can close up shop? Fark me sideways why do these debates always have to be so binary? Will winning help? Yes. Is winning the only metric used for sponsorship? No. Doug proved that you can start and build a team based on a more altruistic goal than just win win WIN. He did it for a decade. At the highest level in the sport. I'm sure your mindset is appropriate for SA but on this side of the pond the MONEYANDWINATALLCOSTS approach is rapidly losing popularity.

You're a confusing man - you said Qhubeka would do better without the team but meant that the team have outgrown their mandate? While you were googling Qhubeka's mission statement you should have probably looked toward the top right of their home screen - there is a direct link to the team - right in the hero section. A mention in the hero space is a pretty solid confirmation that the Team is really important to the charity. So Team Qhubeka say they race for something bigger than wins but you reckon it's all about the wins? Economies are not shrinking - the expected global growth for 2021 is 6% and 5% next year.

What? The team has been BAD for Qhubeka? Please explain how showcasing the charity globally with famous athletes has been bad for Qhubeka. That makes no sense. Even people here in Copenhagen know what Qhubeka is thanks to the Doug and the team. That is how the world works....according to you. Sponsors want positive exposure (with the positive part becoming more and more important). Qhubeka has "positive" in spades. The exposure is linked to the winning of course but it isn't the only metric. I agree with you that winning would help but it is one of many aspects of sponsorship - not the main one. There is a reason the top paid riders of 2021 and the world rankings of riders for 2021 looks radically different (hint: Chris tops the tables and he hasn't won anything in a few years).

Socialism? Not a single sponsor of theirs has been a government owned company as far as I know....MTN, Didata/NTT, Deloitte, ASSOS, Nexthash are all privately owned. Nederberg, Mercedes, Burberry, Hunt too.... They have only ever showcased one upliftment scheme: Qhubeka.

That is a really South African/myopic view of the world. Many brands are looking to present themselves as greener/more caring/socially aware etc and spend many millions on achieving exactly that. Winning ISN'T everything.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/top-10-mens-transfer-successes-of-2021/ 3 of the 10 successes were from NTT to other teams - I would love to know what is/was wrong with NTT management/training/control that they turn race horses into donkeys or can't/don't/won't develop talent....

This guy. I like this guy! Over here the volunteer system works tremendously. It's one of the best ways to effecr change and dear god SA needs a bit of that!

A wise person once told me to look out for signs of "preparing" if you suspect someone is on the edge. Giving things away, new insurance policies, making sure people are ok financially, saying goodbyes that are a little more serious than normal. That kind of thing. Suicide must be brutal on the family - I can't imagine how they feel. Condolences to all. It hit me pretty hard and I only met the legend a few times. "Lekker lekker lekker" will never be the same.

100% The issues are often over stated as well. We never hear about the millions of people who don't cheat - just the vast minority that do. It gives us a skewed perspective on the world. Case in the point: The hub ????

Tax evasion, insider trading, speeding/not paying speeding fines, collusion, price fixing, shoplifting - every person/industry has their own brand of doping.

7 x 5 star reviews? I'd buy something from them ???????? Ah that is awesome.

Here's a fun hypothetical question. If there was a group of runners in the cycle lane on the cradle jogging along at 12kph covering the full lane would you as a cyclist follow the same protocol that we're asking motorists to follow? Stay behind them at 12kph until it was safe to overtake?

Have you noticed the trend on this thread? Everybody here follows the rules and is a good citizen - it is everyone else that is the problem. Crazy huh? That all the decent people would gather together on 1 specific site.

Agreed but I figure a bit of compromise from both parties is the sweet spot. You can't expect motorists to treat you well when you force them to drive at 30kph for endless amounts of time behind your huge group because you want to enjoy a group ride.

If they enforced the 1.5m overtake rule as well as the <10 rider rule we'd have utopian riding in SA!

https://road.cc/content/news/singapore-ban-riding-line-more-5-bike-lengths-287315?fbclid=IwAR034Naar01lczU1_rKMuspyKeJsc-GnN6rutpAsRusLZ7EAVngO0ZD3GMU The safety of single file versus group has come up often here on le hub. Personally I think this is a fine idea. Big groups (sometimes with a safety car) are nearly impossible to overtake.

Depends on the sponsor. If they're in it to add the feels/fuzziness to their brand then the objective is to spread the words and bikes not win the TdF.

That is where they started so no shame in dropping down, rebuilding and getting back to the top. The Qhubeka dream is really popular over here. I have the logo on some of my products and it is well recognized. Doug should be able to attract sponsors again.... Edit: They need to do something about management though. It feels like there is something rotten in the team. Many, many riders have underperformed badly at Qhubeka in the last few years.

Make some of these and put them up on the route?

Almost all of those companies are multinational. Sure they're more European than global players but most of them have a presence in many European countries.

Some fun national contrast.... Lately there have been some local issues (accidents etc) on multiuse paths (pedestrians and cyclists) over here. Most the chatter on Danish threads has been how to make it safer for everyone. A father and daughter team spent a few weekends painting dotted lines on roads/paths etc (with permission from the council). Local interest groups (hiking clubs/cycling clubs) had an open meeting and lobbied the local council to change some intersections where visibility was compromised etc. The group themselves did the work and paid for the materials (council just approved the ideas). Most of this cradle thread is dedicated to blame, self interest and ranting... Now of course the 2 countries are worlds apart but a little more "what can I do" or "how do my actions affect other people" is far more useful than pointing fingers and moaning. #justsaying

Man I enjoyed that. I had it on in the shop all week and was educating my clients on all things South African/Epic. 1 of my customers was there and cracked top 10 in his category. All the pain, memories, good times, struggles etc flooded back (from both Epic and South Africa in general). I love it here in Denmark but SA still has a firm hold on my heart ????