BikeMax

--just because they haven't proved it doesn't mean it isnt true. If there is one thing I have learnt in science this is it. So now someone has to do the science. Sure - but it's a good place to start if you are trying to back up what to date has been supposition ? Science can prove that better CV capacity will = better performance on a bike.

Yes..as long as you don;t then try and advocate that more strength = better power output

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike... The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling. I think some are missing the point of X training or training secondary muscles. IMO that is to try and prevent imbalances in muscle strength and condition which could lead to weakness' date=' pain and injuries (especially as you get older). X training does not only mean increasing muscle strength but also developing overall fitness (flexibility, strength, endurance and cardiovascular ability). Obviously to achieve success or improve performance you need to train more sport specific (that is train for cycling by cycling), but what?s the point of becoming a superdupercardiovascularmachine if you cannot cycle PROPERLY due to a back injury / pain, caused by over developed hip flexors, quads or gluts and underdeveloped core/stabilizing/ other muscles ?? [/quote'] No argument there..but let's not confuse that with improved cycling performance please...which was the OP's question.

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike... The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling. have you read the whole thread? what about... if you've got these big strong cycling muscles you will rely on them to do all the work. The less used ones that could be helping out with the workload get "lazy" in a sense. If you could recruit these lazy little bastards as well how much faster could you go!? You would take some of the pressure off the big guys' date=' faster...longer? perhaps if you considered them they could be put to better use? It's just something I was thinking about, after chatting to my physio and yoga teacher. [/quote'] Hi Sara The principle of endurance cycling performance is based on the fact that leg or muscle strength are NEVER the limiting factor. The limiter is CV fitness - studies have shown that elite cyclists simply push harder on the pedals due to their higher CV fitness levels. If you want to improve cycling performance then it is necessary to be able to put out more power for the same cardiac output - the way to achieve this is by training the heart and not legs, core etc. Spreading the load differently as you advocate will not improve the hearts ability to feed the working muscles with 02 and so will not improve performance - your bdoy uses it's muscles very effectively, and as Bruce says - if you want it to use them even better for cycling, then cycle more and then they get better at that discipline.

Cycling performance and power output is dictated by CV fitness and not muscle strength. Core strngth may reduce rider fatigue due to prolonged sitting on a bike in an aero position or similar but it will not improve power output.

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike... The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling.

Unless you plan to ride in one position for the entire ride then you are either going to have to tolerate inconsistent readings or recalibrate in each position.

The PowerMeters that Hunter Allen was comparing it to' date=' and found it "damn close to my other power meters." was actually SRM & PowerTap... not to bad for a flawed little thingy with too many variables to deal with... [/quote'] What does "damn close" mean ? - the comparisons that I have seen have shown the overall data, particularly the NP to be significantly out if there have been any spikes caused by misreadings of any sort - a short spike in a power file causes mayhem in the overall analysis of NP/IF & TSS The fact that the frontal area is estimated means that if you change position (and as such change frontal area) then you need to recalibrate in that new position.. On top of that, in a bunch the unit is flawed due to the change in wind resistance caused by the draft.. Then there is the problem with using it on a TT bike due to the airflow change caused by the TT position.. It is always good to see new products that encourage people to train with power, but IMO to compare a device that estimates power (and with significant margin for error) to a device such as PT or SRM that actually measures power is a big mistake. It is a fine device as long as you are happy with it's shortcomings and are prepared to pay as much as a PT for the unit.

Paul Coleman - works with all the cyclists and is based at BikeMax premises. Call on 021 671 3155 to book.

It depends what you want out of the training - If you want to get faster then forget about base training at 70% and lower and try and get a little more quality in by riding at "tempo" pace (75 - 85% MHR) Traditional LSD rides elicit very little benefits in fitness terms (short of increased muscle capiliarisation and a few other adaptive benefits as has been stated on another thread) Unless you have unlimited training time then you are better off raising the quality and so increasing your fitness and in turn ability to ride faster. The "off" season when you may not be racing, is the best time to increase fitness without worrying about being fresh for or tired from races.

The "Bones" by Saris may be a good option - I use it for the tandem and reg bike and it also looks good. http://www.saris.com/p-175-bones-3-bike.aspx

I hope you find the article below of interest. Polar Power is a little tough to set up well but does work and although inconsistent in some gear combinations or on a trainer, is reasonably repeatable - for a little more money however a PT std is a better option Why should cyclists train with a power meter? It is no co-incidence that most of the world?s top cyclists have achieved their results with the help of power based training. Almost every recent top cycling performance has been aided by the use of power meter training technology, including Tour de France wins, one hour records, track records etc RPE (rate of perceived exertion) and HR (heart rate) monitoring have certainly gone a long way towards improving the quality of cyclists? training in past years but both have major limitations that can inhibit training and racing efficiency RPE in most cases is too unreliable (we are too subjective in its use) and the only way of saving data is in our own brain?s memory! Heart rate monitors have served athletes very well in providing an indication of the load that the body is under, however, the only accurate information that a HR meter does give us is how hard your heart is working There are numerous limitations and unknowns associated with training with heart rate alone, being subject to numerous environmental and physiological variables (e.g., temperature, humidity, hydration status, altitude, overtraining, lack of sleep, nervousness, and upward "drift" as exercise progresses) HR also responds too slowly to changes in effort (workload). This is not a problem for steady state (LSD) efforts but the ?lagging? response to change in workload is not ideal for interval training, especially short duration efforts Power monitoring, in comparison to RPE and HR monitoring, in the words of power guru, Andrew Coggan ?.. ?objective measure of exercise intensity, and as such directly determines physiological and perceptual responses to exercise, so training by power provides immediate and quantitative feedback on the intensity of effort. 300 Watts is 300 Watts, no matter how hot, windy, or hilly it is, or what your heart rate is ? though it may "feel" easier or harder depending on various conditions? Most top South African cyclists are now realising the value of ?power based? training and it is certainly going to be the next wave of technology to revolutionise cycle training globally and in particular, here in cycle crazy South Africa. The best known of South African cyclists using power meter technology is Robbie Hunter (and the Phonak team) Recently, Powertap fans Shan Wilson and Brandon Smith were the first South African team home in the gruelling Cape Epic 8 day MTB stage race Power based technology has definitely given cyclists a huge knowledge base about the unique functioning and recovery of their own bodies when subject to the stress of hard training and racing. The main advantages for training with power are as follows: 1. Training with a power meter gives you a complete record of your effort. A power meter records all data from a session or race, including your effort from a cardiovascular viewpoint (heart rate), and from a muscular viewpoint (watts). Most powermeters will also record cadence (leg rpm), speed etc 2. Monitor changes in Fitness. Know with certainty whether your fitness is improving and when you have reached a peak. Avoid over training and overreaching 3. Analyse your Race A power meter can help you better analyse your race. You can easily see when you used too much energy in parts of the race that weren't decisive. Did you make a tactical error in a race, but didn't realize it? By analysing your race data you can learn volumes about the way in which you can improve your racing and training 4. Enhance your indoor training. Indoor training is no longer a second rate substitute for ?rainy day? training. Power meters fitted to your own bicycle allow you to execute identical sessions to those on the road. In fact many quality sessions (and testing in particular) are better executed away from variables like weather, traffic etc. 5. Pinpoint your strengths and weaknesses. With a power meter, you can analyse your performances and training to find out what your natural talents and weaknesses are. You then have the knowledge of where to improve and the strengths that you can capitalise on 6. Accurate feedback to your Coach! A power meter doesn't lie! 7. Achieve your physical potential! A power meter will allow very accurate execution of intervals and training sessions, in particular, execution of short, intense intervals. There is no guesswork, the cyclist knows exactly what effort to put in eg 10 x 2min @ 450watt. Such a session is typically impossible to execute properly with heart rate feedback alone 8. Improving aerodynamics. Most of the energy expended by a cyclist (at speed) goes into overcoming wind resistance. Body position is the single greatest factor in determining your speed while riding at a specific power output. Why risk the disadvantage of a poor position when you can measure your aerodynamics and discover your fastest position! 9. Superior Pacing of efforts. A power meter allows you to calculate and pace your effort better in all of your interval workouts, hill climbs and time trials. When you know your threshold power, you are better equipped to race to win (rather than ?blowing? while trying) or to avoid being dropped by the bunch. 10. Optimisation of cadence. All cyclists will have their own unique optimum cadence. Use a power meter to establish this 11. Accurate and regular testing A power meter allows you to test on a monthly basis, so you can quantitatively see what areas you have improved on and what still needs work. By testing regularly, you can better understand your potential for improvement and better avoid overtraining. 12. Record your training data every few seconds. It's the true diary of all information for every ride. You will know what you were doing almost every second of all races and training sessions! 13. Coordinate your sports nutrition for best performance. Knowing how much work (in kJ) you do in training allows you to plan your meals with accuracy! You will recover faster and be able to train harder sooner. You will also be able to plan to reach your ideal physique by eating enough to supplement or maintain your muscle mass. 14. Highly efficient planning, control and execution of training. Train efficiently so that you peak at your goal events. Every top cycling performance has been aided in some way by the use of power meter training --- oOo ---

Quite a few racing tandems do just that - questionable whether it makes any difference. Going faster on a bike is not about pedalling technique - it is about better w/kg. Faster riders do not eliminate the "dead spot" they push down harder.

I like to look at it as return on your "pain"investment RE group riding - there is a place for it in a structured programme but in general the weekday sessions are mostly individual, to ensure that you get the time in the required training zone.

I would add, that if making the most of your training time is an issue for you, then a more specific approach and an understanding of what you are looking for out of each session, will help to produce your desired results in a faster and more efficient manner. Think about it like this, by taking an unstructured approach, you may hit the target but you will probably waste a few bullets along the way, whereas by taking careful aim with the correct gun sights you will hit the target more often and waste less bullets.

Naas The hub kit is ; Std R5299 on special and R5999 with a Mavic Open Pro - good deal at present as normally R5999 hub kit only Pro is R6999 for hub - wheel anywhere from R500-1000 SL is R8499 for Hub - wheel as above depending on spec What is the diff between the three? And weight of complete Powertap wheel? Wheel with SL - say a DT Swiss R1.1 will come in at around 1000gm From the agent; There is much that can be said about the differences between the three models, so, for a description of each, I invite you to visit http://www.saris.com/c-11-power-meters.aspx. Click on the ?Compare? link, for a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison between the three units. The SL is the most commonly purchased unit. It is identical to the Pro, except for the hub, which is different in construction and weighs 160 grams less than the Pro?s hub. The Pro and the SL are functionally identical. The Pro and the Standard use similar hardware, but ? because of the different software capability of the Standard?s bike computer ? the Standard does not incorporate as much functionality as the Pro and SL. While the SL is available with either a Shimano freehub or a Campagnolo freehub, the Pro and Standard units are produced with only a Shimano freehub. However, a Campagnolo conversion cassette can be used with the Pro and Standard units to make them Campagnolo compatible. A new model, called the PowerTap SL 2.4 will be released shortly (Hopefully Nov/Dec). It is an upgrade on the current SL and is wireless, with coded transmission. The exact pricing is not yet confirmed, but I expect that it will retail for approx R9899, and displace the current SL as the world?s most popular power meter. All are equally accurate (at 1.5% scientific accuracy) and consistent. After purchasing a PowerTap hub, one needs to build it into a wheel of their choice, with 24-, 28-, or 32-hole spoke counts. We frequently arrange wheel builds on our clients? behalf, and will happily make recommendations on the choice of rim and spokes according to your needs. All four PowerTap models are available in a mountain bike version; however, the hubs unfortunately do not accommodate disk brakes, and so can only be used with V-brakes at the rear. The constituent parts of the PowerTap systems are also separately, so it is possible to purchase an additional hub and wiring kit and in this way use the PowerTap on a training and racing bike, without the need to transfer the parts across.

Naas The hub kit is ; Std R5299 on special and R5999 with a Mavic Open Pro - good deal at present as normally R5999 hub kit only Pro is R6999 for hub - wheel anywhere from R500-1000 SL is R8499 for Hub - wheel as above depending on spec

No - wrong spoke configuration. Sell the Ksyrium and use the money to buy PT.

You saw them after 5 hours on the bike. bruce should be sorted out this week. We lucky to have be part of our team for next year ' date=' he'll bring some valuble training knowledge over to us which hopefully will show in the hole teams performances. [/quote'] Bruce - are they after your brains ?