HappyMartin

You really get upset over this? I don't have time to get upset over everything I see people doing that I would do differently. Also I seem to remember something about not judging others. I read it in a book somewhere I think.

I like the logic. Cyclists don't obey all the road rules so kill the suckers.

Yesterday I drove out to Carnival City and rode from there to Heidelberg and back to get some base distance. Did it twice but anyway. I decided I would obey all the rules of the road including stopping at those few isolated traffic lights. This was a new experience for me to be honest. I usually roll through these types of intersections The most memorable experience was stopping at a t junction with a road entering from the right. I had a wide shoulder on the left but I stopped and waited anyway. No other vehicle in sight. Just me. Stood there in the heat looking at the mine dump and admiring the miellie fields. I kept wondering what the point of it all was. Not even an aircraft in sight. Tried telling myself that I was saving lives but I remain unconvinced. Still I did it. Then I thought "If a cyclist stops at a red light and there is no one to see him stopped, did he still stop?" Ya boet, philosophy, it gets very deep. Then again perhaps the heat had just fried my stupid ass roadie brain.

That is a weird argument. Because LA tramples on someone you get to hear of there existence and so they should be grateful to Lance for the favor. Really? Her life would have been better if she never came across LA. Don't think he made her rich or anything and I'm pretty sure being slated on the hub was not something she was hoping for as far as a measurement of a successful life.

And anyway LA was no way the king of dopers so he can't swop that title for his TDF wins. That has to go to Pantani. How can you beat 100 grams of coke a week aside from EPO, steroids and human growth hormone.

You don't think he's a vegetarian?

Yes I treat even green lights as caution. Comes from t boning a car with a motorbike years ago. I ride Atlas road about twice a month. Have done for years. Can't ever remember seeing a cyclist stop at a red light when the road was clear. I am pretty sure that this is what causes people tin PE to get drunk and then ride into cyclists and kill them. I mean its obvious really. Perhaps I better leave now.

But really, on Oprah? Cycling really has turned into this type of rubbish Don't you think the Jerry Springer format would be better? We could have a real battle of the boys spitting biting and scratching while the big bald dude pulls them apart and Jerry stands and smirks.

Ride For Sight is a good one though this year the route seems to have changed completely. I like it because it is a bit longer, usually around the 115km mark and it has a few hard pulls in it. I also like the Jacaranda, used to be the Satellite challenge. It starts out at Pellindaba and ambles around the Magalies area before climbing over Hekpoort. It is around 120km. I love the way the group sticks together with a few attacks going off and then finally explodes on Hekpoort. I always get dropped but I love trying to hang on then there is the scramble to find a group once over Hekpoort so you can drive hard on the long gentle decent back to Pelindaba. That bit gets a bit dodgy with people tired and average speeds around 50. I love that race. It is a week after the Shova so my legs are always poked because we ride down to PMB for the Shova.

If he does do it, if he makes a complete confession, there are some people who will be very nervous. I bet he would have a different view on who did what from some of the other confessors.

Nice one Giniel. I hope he nails it.

If Armstrong comes clean then by rights he must have the same punishment as the other dopers who came clean. By that I include Hamilton, Zabriskie and the rest. It was a 6 month ban I think. Would make no sense to give LA a harsher punishment because he can be abrasive. If abrasive was a crime just think how few people would be allowed to post on the Hub

Very very sad. Sympathy for the family. Find myself writing this so often I should just put it in my signature

Clearly not even cyclists know the rules. The guy was on a busy road, that's not against the law. There was a scooter behind him, that's not against the law. It would be difficult to overtake, so what, wait till its safe then overtake. Would you like to ban bicycles from the road? I really don't know, when we get this on a cycling forum from a cyclist then I really think there is no hope. Personally I prefer to find quiet roads to train on but sometimes that means linking between quiet sections on a busy section. To get in any decent training you need around 100 km. inevitably you end up on some busy sections.

He can get his other druggie mate Robin Williams to play him. They might not look alike but both used a lot of drugs and at least Williams does ride.

I like the logic. If the roadies in the cradle start to obey the law then a taxi driver in Shelly beach will suddenly start looking out for bicycles. Let me know how that works out.

A good book that. Another good book and really goes back to the beginning of the exposé on doping is Simpsons book. I think it is called "Riding is my life". Turned out he was right. It is available from Amazon for the kindle. Sorry but cannot agree on the zero figure for clean riders. There are documented cases of riders pulling out of a career in cycling because they refused to dope and if we know of those there must have been others. Anyway my point is I refuse to accept the excuse that it was OK to dope because everyone else was doing it. I agree that the clean riders should have spoken up. They have to accept some responsibility. But then again speaking up resulted in expensive lawsuits from pleasant Mr Armstrong and insults from people like brave Mr Landis. Not easy for a 22 year old to buck such a strong entrenched system.

Interesting point and I have no idea. I have read a number of cases where people did a race or two and then pulled out and people who were not given contracts because they wouldn't dope. Of course the dopers will say they were not very good anyway but we will never know. I feel quite sure that there were careers that never got off the ground over these issues. I know that this is a LA thread and often degenerates into a LA vs the cheats that talked thing but really the difference is just a matter of degree. A cheater that won a lot vs those that didn't. Like asking who has best shaped turd in my opinion.

I absolutely agree with you slowpoke. My perspective is obey the law unless it endangers my life. Then preserving my life is the law.

I think there are two issues. One is cyclists ignoring the road rules and irritating motorists. The other is safety and staying alive. The issues are slightly related but there is not a direct cause and effect at work. By that I mean obeying the rules will not stop a drunk person nailing you on your side of the road. It will also not stop a taxi turning in front of you. It won't stop you being doored. What it will do is help motorists respect us a little but a lot of people respect nothing and no one, not even themselves. Riding in single file will not solve that problem. I can give examples of where breaking the law will save your life. When I'm cycling with my wife and we approach an intersection I am worried about I will pull alongside her if there is no one behind in order to make us more visible as a group. At some traffic lights I pull off before green because I can get 25 m up the road and into a side road and so clear a space for the line of cars that are behind me. When entering a busy road I will sometimes do so from the wrong side of my entry road to avoid cars wanting to go on straight and will take me out as I try to turn. You guys with all your theories that sound like you have about 3 weeks experience on the road, you know who I mean and I don't mean all people posting that I disagree with, you talk a nice talk but sorry to say it is more important to me to stay alive. My theories have been tested over decades and thousands of kilometers. I am not to about to embark on an experiment with my life

I read the secret race. This story of everyone was doing it is a myth put out by people like Landis and other apologists. It is complete rubbish and needs to be put to rest for two reasons. 1 if everyone is doing it is no excuse. If lots of men rape women that is no excuse for rape. If lots of people drive drunk that is no excuse. Morality is morality and what is wrong is wrong. Wrong does not become right If a lot of people say so. 2 Not everyone was doing it. There were honest people with morality that were forced out of the sport because they refused to cheat. What about them?

I don't really understand your post Heino. Are you saying it is OK to lie and cheat and step on people as long as you believe in a higher power? Is it then not OK if you are nice to people and help them but don't believe in God? As I say I don't understand your post. Cheating is cheating and there should be consequences. I don't say judge the person but I do say judge the act. I don't care what LA believes or doesn't believe. I care that if he cheated he should not derive benefit from that and clean riders should be protected from the cheats. Yes there were and are clean riders. Unfortunately they were not allowed a career in cycling due to rampant cheating. I think that is changing, at least I hope so.

This story is now all over the news channels and non cycling friends are starting to ask me about it. I wish he would say something, anything, so at least my mom can save some money and not have to phone me to tell me and ask me all about it. Every time the story comes up she must see a spike in her cell phone bill.

Did a hard 90km today, on the road. I love riding. I heard 300 cyclists a year are killed on our roads. I have known that for Some time. While the loss of such a great person and talent is a huge tragedy it hasn't altered my assessment of the risks at all because the risk hasn't changed, only our perceptions perhaps. I understand that it makes you think but I will continue to take my chances, as all of us road riders do.

Tough? No I don't think so. I think it's hilarious.