Icycling

One up too that!

what I am hearing here is motorist get upset when cyclist are been as considerate as most motorist are (lets face it a lot of motorist are very inconsiderate)! Their no law on the road that says a cyclist maybe not ride 1m from the curb it just states stay in the lane and as far left as safe. If a cyclist feel his / her safety factor is 1 m from the curb then motorist should respect that. After all cyclist have the same rights as motorist. Go rant at motorist who sit in the overtaking / fast lane on the free ways and motorist who still insist at overtaking cyclist on narrow road with blind rises and solid line with more than 2 wheels over the solid centre line. Motorist should learn some patients and manors! Yup I too am a motorist!

It was at an AGM about 5 years back - maybe more when the those who came to the AGM were asked to vote. Their was a "sunset clause" which was about to expire at that point PPA need to be part of CSA or not to be part of CSA - the members who attend the AGM decided in the interested of cycling it was better to be part of CSA and the greater sport than just to work in isolation in the WP as a non recognized sporting associaion. Their were some "autonomy right" which were granted in perpetually in this constitution - problem is SACOC has handed CSA with constitutions for all sports and the words in "autonomy" and "in perpetually" do not future in these constitutions and SASCOC seem to believe nobody has the rights to this type of clause! Well thats how I remember it! But line is SACOC is the "law" for sports in RSA and either fit in or fall out - could be one point of view!

After seeing all the donations come in for Maroesjka including some from myself along with giving an airticket to a rider to go to World Mountain Bike Marathon Champs next week. Please consider the junior been selected to go to World track champs all have to come up with I been told R30 000 to go! This is the link to who has been selected: https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/track/sa-track-cycling/junior-track-cycling-team-selected-for-worlds-in-glasgow-sco-r705

Not too High Jack this thread - and I too have given R1000 (well Maroesjka get it on Sunday) along with giving an airticket to a rider to go to World Mountain Bike Marathon Champs next week, but their are also some other in need. Currently the junior been selected to go to World track champs all have to come up with I been told R30 000 to go! This is the link to who has been selected: https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/track/sa-track-cycling/junior-track-cycling-team-selected-for-worlds-in-glasgow-sco-r705 I know another thread ha been created for donations - but if you know any off these riders or have sen them race maybe consider helping with their funding.

Nice one Wayne! This a true example why CSA needs funding - their will not always be the Wayne's of the world around!

As the CSA F off topic got locked: I have a car which I don't necessary want to drive but need to for work purposes! I need to pay a license - it the rule of the country, you pay and move on! I don't race my car well maybe I do, we are lucky we don'y pay cycle license - we use too it was an allu disc - so to give R75 per annum via and online system to CSA, I don't actually see what the huge fuss is all about. We aren't paying to ride on the road anymore. How many new tubes can you buy with R75.00? If it means some talented young cyclist can go and get some international exposure and my R75 contributed towards that (even if only R1 out of the R75) - well thats OK. Oh S#@t I am looking at the bigger picture and we don't do that here.

And maybe in 2013 this will be what happens - but don't expect the road fun rides to be around much long due to lack of cyclist!

Well at least Graeme Joffe can still read between the line and basically with his little knowledge of cycling can still put the blame squarely on SASCOC! But to comment of Steve Hayward: 1. When it came to the kids at 94.7 and day licenses he did not say - no an event has to more than what been commented in this tread 30km long for people to need day licenses - so the kids do not need to pay this fee from what I understand from this thread! 2. He goes on about been a putting on fun rides and by doing this drawing people into the sport - 100% correct. Then if the cyclist has potential and are talented putting them into the CSA structure and WP (what ever province) or national team with the hope 1 day a olympic team - that is great! But how can PPA knowingly do this when they know CSA don't have the finance to develop these cyclist - yes PPA want to turn a blind eye to this, but surely if you started the ball rolling (getting a person {especially the youth} interested in competitive cycling - all fun ride are competitive by nature of them been timed) you obliged to give it the support all the way through (esp. if you have the financial means which PPA do) unless you know another body is able to follow what you started of to the end? This is where I have a huge problem with PPA is as soon as a cyclist shows ability they actually drop them! How can they do that to their members? I a not surprised the likes of Darren Lill (still lives in Cape Town and races) who by the way did their 1st Argus Cycle tour at the age of 7 are no longer a member of PPA - PPA failed him! Like PPA has failed a lot of other cyclist who started in the PPA fun ride system became relatively good and could have gone further but PPA stance on not wanting to invest in the racing members has got to be questions! That's is why CSA need money and surely they should be looking to PPA for this in one form or another be it a grant or a levy on entries into their fun ride, which use public road, which possible SASCOC / CSA, could prevent PPA getting access too! Its not bulling is actually is just saying you started something finish it!

How many lawyers are on the PPA committee at present? 2 or 3!

For more over taking space other road uses should understand: http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/954871_10151429112056577_1792968526_n.jpg

Lets for 1 moment consider what the members of PPA have already voted on a few years back to be in a unified body or not to be in a unified body. The member decided it was better for the sport to be in a unified body. Believe it, it still is and if the current committee cannot accept that you have to ask why and who on the committee is possibly finically benefitting for it directly so or indirectly so! What agendas do the individuals on the committee have? It is a case of making it work what ever government dictates to CSA! Imagine when the rules changed on smoking and business did not make it work - their would be no restaurant, night club or bars still open! Sometime the rules change by government and you have to deal with them! Cycling is far better speaking / campaigning with 1 voice when it get / trying to achieve objectives with the greater part of government from road safety, better infrastructure for cyclist nationally, even on the elite side of the sport see the cyclist being successful on the world stage! PPA realized this what about 14 years back and thus went into negotiation with then the SACF to form a new body called CSA. They realized the new body CSA with many more members PPA themselves in current number bring 18 000 members to the party government could not just be ignored - but with this new stance by PPA, cycling will no doubt be in a worse place than it currently is as highlighted by several people in this thread.

Not sure why what PPA versa what CSA is been compared here? CSA as stated earlier is basically the "governments cycling arm" - granted the "racing" part - and as you stated in the Western Cape governments is doing quite a bit in building bike paths! Granted you cannot expect PPA to fit the bill of government in building infrastructure - their they just don't have enough rands as that would run into 100 of millions - thus the disclaimer (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded). But lobbing government thats a different story! Possibly lobbying government through CSA would have more success on a National scale. On the other hand maybe government just want PPA to come to the party in the form of CSA and help with the racing side - possibly a bill they could significantly fit - after all it is governments overall sporting government department dictating to CSA. Government will take care of the rest - no doubt at a very slow pace depending on the province! Possibly 1 of the reasons for PPA getting a TAX concession. Their are a whole lot off issue here and I am not prepared to write a whole paper on this matter!

Did you not see the disclaimer! (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded) But their is an event in Australia - similar to the Cycle tour - which all their profits go to employ people just lobby government for cyclist rights and to get better laws / facilities in place for cyclist! They are even suceeding. They don't spend money on unit trust every month!

I started cycling back in 1983 (10 years old at the time) to ride the then Argus Cycle tour - my older brother came home from school and announced he wanted to to this event! So my father who even won the Argus cycle tour and myself decided we would also start cycling! Part of my training and my independence in life became my bicycle - I use to ride to school (this at the time was a big portion of my training), post schooling studies and even to work - I work in the Strand and lived in Constantia! (60km commute each way). I no longer study and work from home - but I still do cycle! I have 2 half sister on my fathers side - he has never let them ride on the roads - as he feels the roads are way to un safe to cycle on - PPA has failed (maybe with what ever amount of resource they had they could not have succeeded) the cycling community in keeping the roads safe, which I agree should be their main Priority! I don't have any children of my own but I do see far fewer kids riding to school and back - if you have children do you allow them to commute via bicycle to school - if not why not?

Lets use the analogy of private business and government here! Lets call PPA business and CSA government and lets face it that is actually what it is! Does private business pay tax? YES and probably about 30%. Does PPA pay tax - NO Why does PPA not pay tax - well if I recall it is listed as a section 21 company (it may be VAT registered) - a company for non profit! So why does PPA have million in the bank / investments and still expect not to pay tax? As has been said on many occasion in this thread CSA is after PPA money - probably 100% on the mark. Why would the government not want tax from a company which is making / has money? This in not only in RSA but world wide! On the plus side at least if for argument sake PPA did willingly give say 30% of their annual non spend on cycling (units trust is not cycling nor is buying property or taking CSA to court) to CSA then PPA at least knows the money is still staying in cycling circles - 1 up on the normal tax payer - as we don't know where the money is generally going and how much is really been waisted! Of what goes to CSA 50% would / should remain in the WP (this is what happens with ride rider levies) leg of CSA i.e. WPCA already noted to be volunteers! 50% would be used nationally also in the thread pointed out that more than 50% of The Cape Argus Pick ' N PAy cycle tour consist of riders from out of Cape Town so why shouldn't some of these fund be pumped back into their communities via the national body - CSA. PPA only has excess cash because of 1 road cycling event / RACE the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour - without it they would not have been able to save so much money - anyone who looks at the books would be able to see that. Before 50% of the profits of the cycle tour went back into PPA - PPA were not able to save money, originally PPA received 10% of the entry and owned the event, but due to a year or 2 of negotiation with Rotary PPA negotiated a 50 /50 ownership agreement along with a 50/50 profit share. I was part of these negotiation and certainly did not spend this time to see a fair portion of this money just to be spent on UNIT trust All this is happening because of PPA's inability to spend their annual income and on a whole cycling in RSA could be doing a whole allot better. IF PPA did not have any money it would not be a huge issue! I am not suggesting anything should be taken away from any other part of cycling currently spend to help "The Pro." I am suggesting that money could also be spent on "the Pro" along with other cycling projects from the money which is been saved. Saved and for what? On a side note I am a member of PPA and have been for 31 years! I may choose not to join the association again, so why have I not received full benefits while I have been a member? What do I mean by this - well PPA have managed to save millions of rands over the years which could have been put back into cycling at the time - which would have directly or indirectly benefitted me! Why should possible benefits which PPA could be offering to cycling now be used in the future when I may not be a member or even a cyclist / alive? I do see merit in PPA having reserve funding for 1 year but thats really as far as it should go! Yes 31years back I would have loved a youth festival! Instead I paid my own way to the Eric van Enter which is the closest thing they had at the time - then PPA also was not sitting on huge sums of money.

18 000 members - avg fun ride between 1000 and 1500, when 1500 normally has a league ride attached. League entry about 300 each season! Which are the most committed riders?

Thats where we may differ - PPA money or money PPA has from the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour? I am a roadie - done 30 Cycles tours - I don't ride MTB or BMX - I would like to see at 50 % of the cycle tour money end back in the road cycling community! Please list what extra PPA is doing for road riding / racing. I above have already list their spending on road safety and really not a lot or enough!

An email I sent to PPA EXCO on the 7th Jan 2013 Hi All, In the past 6 months, PRO cycling has attained headline news worldwide for all the wrong reasons. Lance Armstrong and David George doping and now Burry Stander. From this, one conclusion can be drawn: if you want to see cycling in the news headlines, you need Pro cyclists involved, whether it is positive or negative. So much attention has been given to drugs in cycling worldwide, even here in the RSA, and I hope that similar attention will be given to road cycle safety, due to the recent death of Burry Stander. Why does the PPA Committee see no merit in funding road racing? Recently, I asked for a mere R50 000 to improve the racing eliminate for our PPA spring league 2012 yet this was turned down By EXCO - at the recommendation of Man / Fin. Hopefully, Burry Stander’s death will not be in vain and will really jumpstart an effective road safety campaign. In addition, the vulnerability of cyclists on the public road has been highlighted to fellow road users. The involvement of the Cycling Pro's could make a very positive impact on the further development of effective safety measures. The sad loss of a high profile cyclist has done far more for public awareness than any other campaign. For example PPA: spending R200 000 on a UCT student to try and establish what should be the required overtaking distance to a cyclist; If my memory serves me well about R75 000 on bus branding; about R50 000 on bumper stickers showing the Cyclist stay alive at 1,5m sticker etc; yet the PPA seem to have ZERO vision in understand the need for funding needs which occur in Pro cycling eg awareness of safety. Yes, Burry came 3rd in the Giro del Capo (a PPA owned event) yet a few years back, PPA did not see the merit in continuing with it. In terms of public awareness, the event did a lot for cycling because of the high profile of the cyclist / the international teams it attracted. Think of the size of the crowds that use to come out to watch the criterium around District 6 and the 5.5km hill climb up Signal hill. When Pedal Power set up this Non-Profit Organisation, Articles of Association or a Constitution have been set up which describe its purpose and the vision. It is meaningless to have all that money in reserve, if Pedal Power does see fit to use the capital power that they have in order to promote these goals. Considering this lack of commitment to achieve these goals, it may be appropriate for the members to approach the High Court and have Pedal Power disbanded. http://www.pedalpower.org.za/about-ppa/constitution-governance/ EXCO has plenty of money in reserve funds. Please, seriously consider using some or all of it to promote safety awareness effectively in the forums or with people who have the same vision. Pedal Power is in a powerful position financially to do something about the urgent need for road safety for cyclists. Here is the link to a poll I put on the hub a while back. Please note what most people feel about all that reserve funding! https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/122825-ppa-how-much-funding-should-the-association-retain-annually-ie-not-spend-on-cycling/ Regards Peter Wheeler The Burry Stander Giro del Capo in honor of all cyclists who have lost their live on the road - funded by PPA. Committee think about that - have some Vision! Burry Stander has basically become a martyr!

Seems like my connection is slow so trying 1 more time in 2 post! Yes fun rides and racing probably should not be hold together. But they also can! Yes racing would be on shorter route / circuit racing. Cost would be a lot cheaper than a long road route and getting closed circuit to traffic maybe even possible! Bring racing to the pubic maybe even possible and thinking back, the Giro del Capo crit in Cape Town maybe a Rondebosch common cirt - this UCT club use to organize. Their was even a circuit race including Ladies mile, Spaanschemat river road and Firgrove way - Peninsula cycling club. This leads to cycling awareness to the masses - maybe even some residents will put a braai on the door step if advertise and well and down the line like happen in Europe put some spot prime up! After all it is free live sports entertainment. Yes I know of some people willing to put up money for this and guess what 10 event a sponsorship / donation of R100 000 would probably result in a guaranteed prize fund of R10 000 per event as the entry would cover the rest and cover more (WPCA has already proven this - even in WINTER) - remember the entry is not been used to support any charity but to support racing cycling! I recon R10 000 per event and less than R100 entry fee would probably draw all the current PPA league riders to the (WPCA) race held at the same time as the PPA event. Added bonuses possible road closure, if a large (relatively speaking) sponsor we found for the event TV coverage etc. If this were too happen and their a 50% chance of it happening as many of the league rider are just sick and tired of the disrespect PPA have shown them, where would this leave the PPA fun rides? Here a potential options: 1. League rider are about 300 of the funride entry - the only guaranteed part week in advance excepting the 1st event. 2. Many league riders have 1 or 2 tag along with them who ride the fun ride sometimes the shorter route. I would put a number of between 75 and 150 riders come to the fun rides as tag along to the league riders per fun ride 3. Some Fun riders see value in riding the fun rides a they can compare their time to the winning time - I would put again anything between 75 and 250 fun riders who do this per fun ride. So the fun ride numbers would be on avg. 500 riders down - would the avg fun ride organizer still find it profitable to put on the these event? Probably not! Could PPA put a minimum of R100 000 to a prize purse and stop this happening without really even affecting their budget - YES. Why don't they - EGO of some committee members! Would this amount of money bankrupt the PPA definitely NOT - double or triple (R300 000) still would not but would offer some really good racing in conjunction with the fun ride. A very nice win win situation and would CSA and PPA still even been in this fight if this were to have happened along with the Giro del Capo? I cannot answer that! So lets say this happens - which as stated may well happen - this is without the UCI / CSA / SASCOC saying it has too - its just the racing cyclist deciding they deserve better - and they do! What will PPA actually be doing apart from hoarding even more money? Now for those who don't think the racing cyclist bring anything to the party and only TAKE and do nothing for the Fun Rider / cycling - here a letter I sent to PPA committee at the beginning of the year - I do believe it is true!

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Tonight meeting was extremely well attend and from what I here the track is now getting an upgrade! But after much negotiation I managed to get the petition form and you too can add your voice along as it is emailed 1st thing tomorrow morning! form below and email address is andrea.crous@capetown.gov.za