Tyres for Epic

[Smiles]

Kenda Nevegal (UST) 2.1 on the front, Maxxis Crossmark (UST)2.1 on the rear. Nothing sexy but the combination delivers great control (in most circumstances) and reliability - Almost 4000km without issue so far. I ride at 3 bar 90% of the time - 4 if it is mainly hardpack.

 

wow, i ride at about 1.8 and 2 bar!

[XPD8]

I've run non-UST Crossmarks on XTR rims tubeless setup for 1000's of KM's.

No problems usually, BUT:

1) You can't run a low pressure as you risk sidewall cuts.

2) Eventually the back tire 'fails' - air escapes through the carcass and bubbles the tread up (only when tyre is very worn though).

 

Viable option, but for the epic I'd go the UST route... reliability, before saving grams.

[Wyatt Earp]

Your problem was rim & tire combination. Michelin & Mavic rims don't seat properly and is not a good choice at all for making non-ust tires tubeless.

 

I find american classic's / stans rims with maxxis to be a very good combination and is very trust worthy.

One should note that the tires tend to bend around corners at certain low pressures and can cause "burbping" of air... can also lead to grip loss. (depends on riding style and tire pressure preference) -> you will have to run with about 100g stans in each tires 25g more than normal to make up for airloss escaping through the side walls. -> should be race only / thorns etc make for lots of airloss on these.

Was it ?

Yes it was , it was a standard fold up tyre which was not meant for UST. or to run tubeless.

Secondly have you ever seen a pair of Mavic Crossrides ?

The rim and the "hook" for the bead was almost identical to the A/Classic and perhaps even better than on some of the Stans offerings.

No Wessel, no non UST tyre is meant for going tubeless.

A tyre doesn't bend around a corner either , they compresses under pressure.

If a tyre burps, you don't add more sealant, you simply take it off, because that is already a sign that you are going to run in to trouble further down the line.

100 g. is hardly enough, I use a 150 grams.

Moral of the story , tyres manufactured to run tubeless are just that.

They use certain manufacturing methods to ensure that these tyres sit properly on the rim and that the sidewalls are strong enough to deal with all the relative forces.

Those who want to run lightweight fold ups for tubeless are of course free to do so, as I stated in my earlier post, I personally refrain from doing so myself.

You tend to forget why tubeless was introduced, it was not to eliminate punctures, the main reason was to allow riders to ride at lower pressures for better traction in cornering and also better grip over rocky terrain, with a tubed wheel, snakebites became very common, tubeless eliminates snake bites .

To do this effectively and also for rider safety you need stronger tyres, the way to do this is to have stronger sidewalls and a hook bead designed to lodge its way under the hook of the rim.

There is nothing more satisfying than hearing a tyre "pop" in to place when it seats itself as it's meant to be, and having peace of mind.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Dangle

[Wyatt Earp]

I've run non-UST Crossmarks on XTR rims tubeless setup for 1000's of KM's.

No problems usually, BUT:

1) You can't run a low pressure as you risk sidewall cuts.

2) Eventually the back tire 'fails' - air escapes through the carcass and bubbles the tread up (only when tyre is very worn though).

 

Viable option, but for the epic I'd go the UST route... reliability, before saving grams.

As I stated , that is why tubeless was introduced in the first place, when we used to run at 3 bar in the old days we go beaten and thrown all over the place, we the decided to lower the pressure but snakebites were bound to happen fairly regularly, and they did.

[TNT1]

Your problem was rim & tire combination. Michelin & Mavic rims don't seat properly

 

 

What? You have some science to back this up, or just some anecdotal story?

[rouxtjie]

Dangle...your feelings on Conti MK & RK combo UST of course?..I know its not a popular choice for the snakes, but I can't fault it...yes its heavy(around 1500g for the set) but I can inflate the tyre with a footpump and they are totally bulletproof

Edited March 11, 2011 by rouxtjie

[RossW]

wow, i ride at about 1.8 and 2 bar!

 

+1 on that. 4 bar! WOW! I have mine at 22 and 24 psi (easier to read and fine tune than bars)

 

I can honestly say I have never pumped my mtb tyres that hard!

[intern]

Hi Intern,

 

Coming from Euro land I'm keen to know what your issues with the racing ralphs was and if you used proper UST RR's or the standard tubeless ready RR.

 

Ta

 

So far I'm leaning towards Maxxis LUST Monrails or crossmax, but seeing I've been using Schwable Ralphs and Rons for the last 7 years its hard to suddenly try new rubber....

 

Hi Swiss, sorry didn't see this til now. Found the RR bit 'soft' and sidewall not as strong as the Conti/Maxxxxxxxxxxxxis Monorails; used both UST and tubed, liked neither as much as I do Conti.Maxxxxxxxxxxis. Crossmax always a good choice, BTW. Being now in NZ, no need for the strong Conti/Maxxxxxxxxxxxxis, rocky stuff is all but completely absent and these Kiwis don't really know what doringbos is!! Best of luck - enjoy (yep I am a bit jealous).

[Danger Dassie]

Intern can also lay witness to some er .. issues with light tubes and thin walled racing ralphs

[intern]

Intern can also lay witness to some er .. issues with light tubes and thin walled racing ralphs

 

Hahaha, I was trying REALLY hard to put that completely out of memory, NOW look what you've gone and done..

[SwissVan]

Hi Swiss, sorry didn't see this til now. Found the RR bit 'soft' and sidewall not as strong as the Conti/Maxxxxxxxxxxxxis Monorails; used both UST and tubed, liked neither as much as I do Conti.Maxxxxxxxxxxis. Crossmax always a good choice, BTW. Being now in NZ, no need for the strong Conti/Maxxxxxxxxxxxxis, rocky stuff is all but completely absent and these Kiwis don't really know what doringbos is!! Best of luck - enjoy (yep I am a bit jealous).

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Ja even here the rocks are mostly rounded off and have not seen any decent sized thorns around here.

 

I've opted for LUST Monorails 2.1, only bloody problem is no one seems to stock them in Switz...bloody cave dwellers!

 

Have resorted to CRC which probably will work out cheaper anyway.

[intern]

You won't go wrong with Monorails. Their real weak point is wet/muddy where they are bloody useless. But for the dry dusty karoo - just the ticket

[SwissVan]

You won't go wrong with Monorails. Their real weak point is wet/muddy where they are bloody useless. But for the dry dusty karoo - just the ticket

 

Well lets hope the drought doen't break during the epic

Something else to worry about LOL...

[WesselvdWalt]

What? You have some science to back this up, or just some anecdotal story?

 

No science just, in personal experience.

 

Used to race with crossmax ust rims (@dangle) and tried two sets of michelin non ust tires. The crossmax hardly has a hook, and the michelins hardly has a bead... But this is 4yrs ago...

 

@dangle

The stans rims is by no way the same... It has a much more pronounced hook, built for going tubeless.

I'm by no means saying that the non ust tires are meant to go tubeless. I'm purely saying i've tried some and what works in my expierience. Garmin team rides with non ust maxxis tires all year thus far... I'm saying it's a risk, but it's calculated for the experienced rider.

 

Stans notubes guideline is 75ml per wheel minimum, Yes I regularly also use 150ml depending on terrain etc. All i'm saying is you'll have to use more to prevent air escape from the carcass in non ust...

 

Burping - of cause it compresses, but if you look closely the tire actually folds on the rim with lower pressures, around corners. Potato Potatoe

 

Is it worth the additional saving in weight and risk...? No, but people do it... Some with bad experience and huge problems and others without.

 

My Epic in 2008 from knysna to cape was done on stock maxxis tires on new merida non ust and lighter than usual foldables converted with stans strip on american classics and I had no problems during race, usual airloss top-up before each day.

 

Do I advise this? Hardly, it makes the risk huge, but it suites my riding style, and if you keep stans topped up and pressure regulated it's manageable. It does not suit alot of riders riding style and experience.

[Wyatt Earp]

1.No science just, in personal experience.

 

Used to race with crossmax ust rims (@dangle) and tried two sets of michelin non ust tires.2. The crossmax hardly has a hook, and the michelins hardly has a bead...3. But this is 4yrs ago...

@dangle

4.The stans rims is by no way the same... It has a much more pronounced hook, built for going tubeless.

I'm by no means saying that the non ust tires are meant to go tubeless. I'm purely saying i've tried some and what works in my expierience. Garmin team rides with non ust maxxis tires all year thus far... I'm saying it's a risk, but it's calculated for the experienced rider.

 

Stans notubes guideline is 75ml per wheel minimum, Yes I regularly also use 150ml depending on terrain etc. All i'm saying is you'll have to use more to prevent air escape from the carcass in non ust...

 

Burping - of cause it compresses, but if you look closely the tire actually folds on the rim with lower pressures, around corners. Potato Potatoe

 

Is it worth the additional saving in weight and risk...? No, but people do it... Some with bad experience and huge problems and others without.

 

My Epic in 2008 from knysna to cape was done on stock maxxis tires on new merida non ust and lighter than usual foldables converted with stans strip on american classics and I had no problems during race, usual airloss top-up before each day.

 

Do I advise this? Hardly, it makes the risk huge, but it suites my riding style, and if you keep stans topped up and pressure regulated it's manageable. It does not suit alot of riders riding style and experience.

1. No, not @ Dangle is should be @TNT, I din't ask you about your science.

 

2.I am not talking about Crossmax, I am referring to crossrides circa 2003, so my question again, have you actually seen the rim ?

They had pretty little yellow hubs.

 

3.No my son, longer than 4 years ago ,read my first post.

 

4.Again I ask, have you actually seen the Crossride rim circa 2003 ?

 

I simply ask these question because very much like TNT I think you responded out of assumption and I found your lecture you gave me rather interesting.

 

@Rouxtjie, those are pretty solid tyres those.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Dangle

[rouxtjie]

....

@Rouxtjie, those are pretty solid tyres those.

Ta