Cricket......

[JGR]

That would mean that another player will have to lose out. JP's off breaks are more than handy in what could be a side with no front-line spinner playing in the first test. A like-for-like replacement would be someone like Roelof vd Merwe or Johan Botha (if the SA selectors are willing to look at a soon-to-be Aussie national).

So sad ..... still wonder what happened there.

[Christie]

His career was going up till he led the team that smashed the Aussies in an odi series over there (after Smith broke his hand, I think). They started to complain about Botha's action. Their umpires no-balled him a couple of times, after which he was tested in Aus and had his doosra banned as a result. Without the doosra, his bowling became less attacking, and SA have got enough "holding one end" spinners

Edited February 7, 2014 by Christie

[Christie]

 

That would mean that another player will have to lose out. JP's off breaks are more than handy in what could be a side with no front-line spinner playing in the first test. A like-for-like replacement would be someone like Roelof vd Merwe or Johan Botha (if the SA selectors are willing to look at a soon-to-be Aussie national).

I prefer specialists over all rounders for the test team. Miller at 6, Philander at 7 for the all rounder slot, 4 specialist bowlers.

['Dale]

 

Cohesive also doesn't mean collegial or professional to precise. KP is a maverick and needs to be treated differently like all sporting mavericks. Agree or disagree?

 

As I mentioned England were number one when KP was his most 'destructive' and its always funny how those things are forgotten when you are winning yet when the team is rotting they are the first to be blamed. Let us not forgot he was their top run getter in Aus. Swann recently said KP has been fine and there have been no problems since his re-integration into the team. It is all hypocrisy as Eng have had many divisive players in the recent past. Flontoff, Tuffnell ect. What about Panesar urinating on a bouncer whilst pissed out of his head? Have you seen how English sportsmen behave? Cmon. He is a scapegoat but this will bite them in the arse.

 

 

CSA had Gibbs and they let him back into the team after smoking pot, match fixing ect. Have you read his autobio? He was a maverick and needed to be handled differently. Eng has cocked this up by not being able to manage him properly.

 

Any team would have KP in a heart beat but I think he would need to wait a number of years before qualifying.

 

We have different viewpoints.

What we can agree on, possibly, is that something is really screwed up with the player management system within the ECB.

Not just with KP.

What about Trott, Swann, etc... They're in ***.

 

[JGR]

We have different viewpoints.

What we can agree on, possibly, is that something is really screwed up with the player management system within the ECB.

Not just with KP.

What about Trott, Swann, etc... They're in ***.

But then our view point is the same that his demise was more the ECB than him.

 

Your view on the rest? ie maverick players being treated differently? ala Gibbs, Botham, Flintoff ... hell even Warner for the Aussies.

 

We don't have to discuss the word cohesive as it is not subjective and cant be refuted

['Dale]

 

But then our view point is the same that his demise was more the ECB than him.

 

Your view on the rest? ie maverick players being treated differently? ala Gibbs, Botham, Flintoff ... hell even Warner for the Aussies.

 

We don't have to discuss the word cohesive as it is not subjective and cant be refuted

 

A good coach would not use a 'one size fits all' approach.

Every player has an ON switch but often not in the same spot. And so on.

 

"maverick" is also a concept that is fluid and relative.

But I get your drift.

[dracs]

I'm undecided on KP being sidelined. Yes he's that good and hard to see how you can drop your best player.

 

BUT then look at his history. Flower is not the first coach to have an issue with him. Wherever he has been, he has had fallouts with administrators, coaches, captains and a huge number of teammates - from KZN, to CSA, to the ECB. The only common denominator is mr KP himself.

 

if you're that much of a box, all bets are off "maverick" or otherwise.

[JGR]

A good coach would not use a 'one size fits all' approach.

Every player has an ON switch but often not in the same spot. And so on.

 

"maverick" is also a concept that is fluid and relative.

But I get your drift.

Now we are in agreement

 

I specifically meant sports maverick

[JGR]

I'm undecided on KP being sidelined. Yes he's that good and hard to see how you can drop your best player.

 

BUT then look at his history. Flower is not the first coach to have an issue with him. Wherever he has been, he has had fallouts with administrators, coaches, captains and a huge number of teammates - from KZN, to CSA, to the ECB. The only common denominator is mr KP himself.

 

if you're that much of a box, all bets are off "maverick" or otherwise.

No doubt but the issue is many of them have said there hasn't been trouble for a long time. So in retrospect why now have they declared him a bad apple?

 

His issue, in previous years was about the IPL, where he actually has lot a great deal of earning coming back to play for England. Many many players don't always agree with the coach but in this case Flower himself came out and said he had not vibes with KP.

[VicanZA]

in 2012 KP was at the center of SMSgate, with the SA team, he slagged off his team mates! its amazing that he has 100 test.

Cook after been made captain work hard to bring KP back and now the 2 of them have fallen out... sometimes its better to hav 11 players that will give you everything than 10 who cant stand the 1 star.

 

the only people calling to have him reinstated are ex-players and pundits, I dont see any of the current crop standing in his corner, Prior hates KP, Broad cant stand KP.

 

Look at cricket biggest talents for the last 10 years, they may have had their faults off the field but they were all big team player, Warne, Lara, Tendulkar.

[VicanZA]

as for Johan botha he was never that good, SA has never produced a spinner of any real quality! the attack has always been carried by the 4 main seamers with Kallis and a spinner making up the 5th.

 

at junior level any kid that turns it gets smacked to all parts and is forced to bowl darters, the end result are eksteen, Shaw, Botha, crooks, boje!!

[JGR]

in 2012 KP was at the center of SMSgate, with the SA team, he slagged off his team mates! its amazing that he has 100 test.

Cook after been made captain work hard to bring KP back and now the 2 of them have fallen out... sometimes its better to hav 11 players that will give you everything than 10 who cant stand the 1 star.

 

the only people calling to have him reinstated are ex-players and pundits, I dont see any of the current crop standing in his corner, Prior hates KP, Broad cant stand KP.

 

Look at cricket biggest talents for the last 10 years, they may have had their faults off the field but they were all big team player, Warne, Lara, Tendulkar.

Swann just come out to say KP was been fine since the textgate scandal. Flower before he left said they had no problems.

 

So which is it? They are lying and he is a trouble maker . Don't recall reading or seeing him and Cook fell out unless you know something we don't or haven't read.

 

As for Broad ..... arguably the worst sportsmen currently. He is a bigger prima donna than KP but obviously in the right cliché

 

Warne often compromised the team (being banned for drugs and suspended effects the image of the whole team) and well Lara played for the WI, who have been in shambles for years. Chris Gayle picks and chooses when he plays for the WI

[Shebeen]

it's easy to see what the issue is with KP being axed for me. They had to adopt the FIFO principle (not the first in first out one...fit in or f#$ off). He was on like a million warnings after burning bridges like since forever, giving your national board ultimatums bites you in the ass eventually. Yes he might have scored the most runs down under, but he was only marginally better than a really crap top 6 - still averaged under 30. He was guilty many times of throwing his wicket away instead of knuckling down and grinding out an innings

 

anyway, I don't think he really cares about the 'three lions' as much as he's said. as it stands, at 33 he will probably have a good 4/5 seasons playing IPL/guest appearances at T20.

[Cellar]

What faults did Lara have? I mean in this context? And The Little Master?

[Shebeen]

jeeepers, anyone watch the Ram SLAM playoff last night. Dave Miller on fire, I think the oke with the suitcase of balls went out three times as he kept on bouncing them on the stadium roofs and into the street. they were on 83/4 after 13 overs...averaged 16 for the final 7 overs.

 

how's this over from Roelof (after his first 3 overs went for 13)..

van der Merwe into the attack. Interesting with two left handers on

17.1

van der Merwe to Miller, SIX, fuller ball outside the off stump. No room can be given to Miller at this stage. He frees his arms and lofts it over extra-cover for a six

17.2

van der Merwe to Miller, SIX, fuller ball on the leg stump. This time Miller goes over deep midwicket for another six. He gets to his fifty with that six. Well played, Miller

17.3

van der Merwe to Miller, SIX, fuller ball on the middle stump. Miller swings across the line and pitches once on the roof before ending up outside the park

17.4

van der Merwe to Miller, FOUR, width outside the off stump. Miller cuts it to deep point for a boundary

17.5

van der Merwe to Miller, SIX, just a touch fuller this time. Miller is in such good form now that he is clearing all the fences at will. This time he clears the wide long-on boundary

17.6

van der Merwe to Miller, SIX, fuller ball outside the off stump. Miller lofts it over long-off for the fifth six of the over. Thirty four runs from it. Compared to this, Mbhalati's over was better

 

edit: crowd VERY disappointing again in durbs. 3600 turned up.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Shebeen

['Dale]

Oz Tour to SA

 

A crestfallen Shane Watson is out of the first Test against South Africa and under a cloud for the whole series after a calf strain proved more stubborn than first thought.

 

Cricinfo