Die Burger 2011 Safety Concerns

[onetrackmind]

If you've ridden in a pack you'll appreciate that the actions of others can have a direct impact on your safety, regardless of the style that you may subscribe to. I'm not talking about blame, my point is that in any field of cyclists the chances of you being affected by the decisions of somebody careless, stupid, inexperienced or a combination of all three is huge, no matter how careful you are personally. The organizers have a responsibility to all cyclists to keep these three variables in check.

25 years of fun in bunches and counting... and the one constant has been riders bitching about safety instead of looking after it themselves. Remember a few <maybe more than a few> years back when the referees started stopping and dq'ing bunches when they crossed the white line? Amazingly, we found a way to do it their way Maybe it is time for a refresher course

 

If there is no road closure, surely the onus lies on the riders to keep themselves safe from things on the other side of the white line. Intersections, different story. Again, accountability. do it right, personally, and make sure the guys around you do it right, and it will all work out just fine. Make it the organisers' problem, and you lose control of your own situation.

[Howard Simms]

You are so right, and I don't dispute the fact that we all need to take responsibility. But we"ll always be riding with guys who cross the line and put us in danger, I don't feel comfortable policing them, i want to race and know that if someone breaks the rules, they'll be brought to book.

[udxcob]

Well I try to obey the middle line rule and that's the reason I got spat out the back, if you wanted to get out of the wind (on that section) then you had to be on the right and with the huge trucks then hooting and riding on the wrong side of the road in the yellow line, I just didn't want to risk it, and the result was I ost the group......

[Tankman]

Seems like an easy choice to make Udxcob, loose your bunch or loose your life.

 

If everyone obeyed the rules, you will not loose your bunch. Just because one sheep acts stupid and irresponsible it does not give the rest of the herd permission to follow.

 

So you want the bunches to be policed Howard Sims? If we can't control ourselves how do you expect a marshall do it?

 

Shall we rather ask the police to escort us, then you can ask permission every time you want to take a sip of water. And a dump truck while we are at it, so the litter bugs can throw their rubbish in the bin. And an ambulance perhaps, with a team doctor, and a race commisare and and and...

[Niner]

Anybody stunned by the lack of motorcycle marshaling on yesterdays's Die Burger 92KM? I was in group A, not a single marshal with us.

I was also in A and there was a Think Bike Marchal next to us the whole time.

 

I could also see one with the A group in front of us.

 

You sure you were not on your own?

[Howard Simms]

Tank man, you miss my point. My original issue was that there were no marshals to begin with, and that the organizers need to explain that. If we as cyclists honestly trust each and respect each other enough to ride without marshals enforcing the rules then we should, but I really don't see that happening, ever. Furthermore, if the marshals are not empowered to enforce the rules, as your post implies, then it's up to us to grant them that power. That way we can get on with racing and allow them to do their job.

[dirtcrazy]

i agree with howard, i did the 44km and the simondium road, there isnt any "yellow lane" and the cars came past flying! and we had alot of kids riding with us!!! in my opinion the burger is just taking our money and spalt, no water at stations etc, just coke, no powerade??? we actually just paid to ride helz as far as im concerned - and our marshall was having an ice cold windhoek lager while standing next to the road, just to get up on his motorbike and wait for us at the R44 , nah, done with burger, not worth the money

[ibruegge]

Tank man, you miss my point. My original issue was that there were no marshals to begin with, and that the organizers need to explain that.

 

I saw a convoy of marshals: When I drove to Stellenbosch at 5:30, on the R304, I was doing 110km/h and they decided to overtake, at about 130km/h despite oncoming traffic and on the middle line. About 15 of them, all in full PPA Marshall kit - great for creating understanding for cycling. it's about as successful as us claiming the entire road, "because the wind was so strong"....

[dev null]

i agree with howard, i did the 44km and the simondium road, there isnt any "yellow lane" and the cars came past flying! and we had alot of kids riding with us!!! in my opinion the burger is just taking our money and spalt, no water at stations etc, just coke, no powerade??? we actually just paid to ride helz as far as im concerned - and our marshall was having an ice cold windhoek lager while standing next to the road, just to get up on his motorbike and wait for us at the R44 , nah, done with burger, not worth the money

 

I agree with you here. The organisers could have closed that road since there is an alternative route for the motorists. They know that only the short course riders took that road, and since most of the short course riders are inexperienced riders and kids, it just made sense from a safety point of view. If the road had a shoulder, no problem, but damn, I saw a motorist fly past my boy by inches, and he was nervous already as is doing his first race.

[TNT1]

Not to get involved with the white line saga, but I saw comments from some Western cape Think Bike people that say they marshalled cyclists at this race, and they commented that for once the cyclists were more behaved and stayed on the correct side of the road.

[Niner]

Not to get involved with the white line saga, but I saw comments from some Western cape Think Bike people that say they marshalled cyclists at this race, and they commented that for once the cyclists were more behaved and stayed on the correct side of the road.

From what I saw, I fully agree. On the wind some guys were being pushed over the line.

 

The marchal then warn the traffic and also gave ample warning when there was a truck Comming from the front.

 

Everyone would then do the best to get left again and the wind would do its bit again.

 

Very well done considering the conditions.

[Niner]

I saw a convoy of marshals: When I drove to Stellenbosch at 5:30, on the R304, I was doing 110km/h and they decided to overtake, at about 130km/h despite oncoming traffic and on the middle line. About 15 of them, all in full PPA Marshall kit - great for creating understanding for cycling. it's about as successful as us claiming the entire road, "because the wind was so strong"....

You must have a special gift to judge speed that accurately.

 

Have you ever riden a bike? Unless cars from the front were flashing them I would not assume that it was unsafe.

Bike can take a gap 400x quicker and safer than a car.

[Rietrot]

A bunch's riding etiquette was PATHETIC- swinging acros infront of each other, sudden stops and everybody goes OOO AAA yelling and screaming. Not to talk about the general roadsafety, everyone was peeling all the time to the front, and that caused that they started taking chances, BUT NON OF THEM WANTED TO DO SOME WORK IN FRONT!!!

IF THE GUILTY ONES IS READING, THE UN-SAFE AND LAZY ONES...VARK YOU...YOURE PUTTING THE OTHER CYCLIST AROUND YOU IN DANGER!!!

[Tiny K]

Ok... so to sum this thread up:

 

Howard wants there to be a bike marshal for every little group that splits off from the start bunch.

 

Secondly, the bike marshal (1 per bunch split) needs to keep the cyclists on the left of the white line as well as keep the vehicles on the road in check and make them wait if it is unsafe to pass (while still keeping the cyclists in front of him/her in check)

 

The bike marshal must also ride on the left of the white line as this is the rule of the road.

 

My stance is - marshal yourself and be aware of the group dynamics. Watch how the guys ride and adapt your riding style to suit the bunch i.e. if there is a guy who swerves a lot, then sit far away from him.

 

That is my a$$hole - as the saying goes, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has got one.

[Niner]

Well I try to obey the middle line rule and that's the reason I got spat out the back, if you wanted to get out of the wind (on that section) then you had to be on the right and with the huge trucks then hooting and riding on the wrong side of the road in the yellow line, I just didn't want to risk it, and the result was I ost the group......

 

Really? Is it not because you are not strong enough? The guys who rode away from you were sitting in the wind in the front row and still dropped you?

[Niner]

A bunch's riding etiquette was PATHETIC- swinging acros infront of each other, sudden stops and everybody goes OOO AAA yelling and screaming. Not to talk about the general roadsafety, everyone was peeling all the time to the front, and that caused that they started taking chances, BUT NON OF THEM WANTED TO DO SOME WORK IN FRONT!!!

IF THE GUILTY ONES IS READING, THE UN-SAFE AND LAZY ONES...VARK YOU...YOURE PUTTING THE OTHER CYCLIST AROUND YOU IN DANGER!!!

 

Really? Did you know what was going on at all?

 

Let me try and assit you?

 

The sudden stop the first time was because a tandem(with a nervous stroker ) hit a speed wobble (caused by the stroker looking around) and went down.

 

The next slow down was at the railway where there were people lying next to the road and the marshals tell you to slow down.

 

Lots of people in a big bunch will try and get to the front 1/3 of the bunch not the front? Did you not know that?

 

I did not feel unsafe in that bunch, well controlled generally except for some littering.....