Jonkershoek - maintenance issues!

[jimmy hardtail]

On a completely unrelated topic, how awesome is the new dh3 tokai section? Can't wait to hit those jumps tomorrow afternoon while most people are at work or in the pub.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Damn you, Jimmy... Just tried to fix my GT, and found I don't have the right tool. MEH. Otherwise I woulda been there. Set aside Friday PM specifically for that. Now I'll just have to ride it on the XC bike. Not as much fun...

[Capricorn]

they should called it Tigger Track.. for as Omega Man noted; u save money on tyres because u spend so much time in teh air...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

they should called it Tigger Track.. for as Omega Man noted; u save money on tyres because u spend so much time in teh air...

 

Not now I don't

[mtbsurfer]

Geez, you are a man on a mission, just hope you have a bit more diplomacy when YOU get the mtbsurfer treatment from other users wondering why every request to maintain is not met with a resounding yes from the landowner.

- I am just voicing my opnion, am i not entitled to do that ? I have only had one request. What is the difference to the landowner with regards to approvals if the trail is damaged or repaired? Surely they want the trails to be repaired ?

 

I think I answered your query earlier; why are there only DH build days? Because it had to be done, why do you persist with eroding the collective efforts of those actually making a difference, but making the very comments you complain of? - I understand about the last build day on the DH track. I don't see how requesting badly needed maintenace is "eroding your collective efforts"

 

Makes me wonder how much you understand of what we have achieved? I cannot speak for Jonkers, but Tokai has seen the biggest change in perception since MTB was officially included in the SANParks activity. There have only ever been two VIP's with unrestricted vehicle access allowed in Tokai, one is Working for Water, the other is mountainbiking.. this was finally granted in August. Does this alone not show progress.. Is the short sightedness in your comments really how you want to be remembered? - I'm sure one of the main reasons that perceptions of mountain bikers has changed in the past years is due to the massive increase in numbers of riders and wild card/mtb pass sales. I don't feel that my comments are shortsighted at all.

 

Let's look at the downhillers and the downhill trail. In the short space of time, I was able to convince the Park authorities to keep the trail open even though the requirements of the sport goes against what is considered sustainable. Then the downhillers themselves. The activity of motivating the trail required that the downhiller get themselves sorted. They needed to reign in all unauthorised builders, assist in closing unauthorised trails and create a group for effective communication that would show the cohesion within a sub-community. This small group has always received the the short end of the stick, XC riders inconsiderately rode up their only trail and vehemently defended their actions. Now we have a one way system in place suggested by the downhillers, motivated by me and approved by Parks. - I agree with this and am not arguing this point. xc riders should not ride up downhill trails.

 

Add to all this we have the FIRST purpose built track that has ever been built in Tokai. Not a trail developed through constant use as we have in our legacy. Trails we are stuck with until the scoping process is completed, one that comes at a price of no less that R120 000. This will be the document that proves we are oversubscribed and determines among many things, new trails.. oh and it will apply to other riding areas on Table mountain.

 

But of course you know all this because you have taken the time to read around on the hub and stay informed before making clever comments..

- I don't need to read a forum to see what is going on in Tokai regarding the quality of the trails and number of people riding them, my comments are justified and any one can see that more effort has been put into the DH tracks in the last 6 months than anywhere else in tokai.

I was not requesting a whole network of new trails at a huge expense and approval nightmare, just maintenance of exisiting trails.This has come up in conversation many a time with fellow riders who are all of the same opinion.

- I also feel that your comments are condescending.

 

If we have been able to achieve all this since June, can you imagine what is coming for the XC track??

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Oi vey...

[jimmy hardtail]

I reckon the land owners at tokai don't really want anyone there at all and see mtbs as an irritation to be dealt with for good pr.

[(Deon)]

Geez, you are a man on a mission, just hope you have a bit more diplomacy when YOU get the mtbsurfer treatment from other users wondering why every request to maintain is not met with a resounding yes from the landowner.

- I am just voicing my opnion, am i not entitled to do that ? I have only had one request. What is the difference to the landowner with regards to approvals if the trail is damaged or repaired? Surely they want the trails to be repaired ?

 

- Ah, the good old voicing of opinion, outweighing the logic of what is being said. You can voice your opinion, I think I have been patient and answered your questions.

- There were MANY factors that caused a stalemate that lasted up to two years between the trail crew and landowner. There is a deficit of trail repair and we HAVE to start with the most serious. Don't forget that you are a mountain biker much like your DH brother. New negotiations has seen a renewed buy in from Parks so I have their support, I have made that clear.

 

I think I answered your query earlier; why are there only DH build days? Because it had to be done, why do you persist with eroding the collective efforts of those actually making a difference, by making the very comments you complain of? - I understand about the last build day on the DH track. I don't see how requesting badly needed maintenace is "eroding your collective efforts"

 

- Do you really understand? In your opinion, how would you organise a rebuild of a trail, start the project and the move onto something else before it is complete? A mandate was set to repair the DH before the handover to the new Section Ranger. Trail saved - Tick!

- Despite acknowledging your request twice, you continue to say things like :"I think the wong people are in charge here." or "minor patch-ups done here and there on the last xc trail through the fynbos area, that is a joke !!!" Did you forget about these comments? I'll have you know, a party of 4 took 4hrs to fix just one piece of the Faerie Garden. That piece in the Fynbos area took 3 hrs to fix. That is 7 hours of hard work that looks like a joke?! C'mon.. do you think before you speak? Eroding efforts.. or not?

 

 

Makes me wonder how much you understand of what we have achieved? I cannot speak for Jonkers, but Tokai has seen the biggest change in perception since MTB was officially included in the SANParks activity. There have only ever been two VIP's with unrestricted vehicle access allowed in Tokai, one is Working for Water, the other is mountainbiking.. this was finally granted in August. Does this alone not show progress.. Is the short sightedness in your comments really how you want to be remembered? - I'm sure one of the main reasons that perceptions of mountain bikers has changed in the past years is due to the massive increase in numbers of riders and wild card/mtb pass sales. I don't feel that my comments are shortsighted at all.

- Without realising it you are shooting yourself down. A massive increase in numbers needs a updated study to verify what was written in the 2002 EMP.

- You want to fix severely damaged trails without a study... Do you get sustainability? Effective design resulting in minimised trail damage and limiting the need for excessive maintenance.. You are not seeing the progress that will result in better trails, you just want them fixed. Short sighted.

 

Let's look at the downhillers and the downhill trail. In the short space of time,

1. I was able to convince the Park authorities to keep the trail open even though the requirements of the sport goes against what is considered sustainable.

2. Then the downhillers themselves. The activity of motivating the trail required that the downhillers get themselves sorted. They needed to reign in all unauthorised builders, assist in closing unauthorised trails and create a group for effective communication that would show the cohesion within a sub-community.

3. This small group has always received the the short end of the stick, XC riders inconsiderately rode up their only trail and vehemently defended their actions. Now we have a one way system in place suggested by the downhillers, motivated by me and approved by Parks. - I agree with this and am not arguing this point. xc riders should not ride up downhill trails.

 

- You comment on what you want to read, my point was NOT that riders should not be riding up the trail, it is the achievements in the short space of time, I count three. 1. Negotiation, 2. formalising a body and 3. introducing directional trails. I use DH as an example because it is the most extreme trail on the mountain with riders stuck in a negative perception. If we can pull this off, then imagine what we can do for the rest.

 

All this has relevance at the end of the post, but you have chosen to selectively comment on tidbits, therefore it loses it's impact. But ok, we'll continue.

 

Add to all this we have the FIRST purpose built track that has ever been built in Tokai. Not a trail developed through constant use as we have in our legacy. Trails we are stuck with until the scoping process is completed, one that comes at a price of no less that R120 000. This will be the document that proves we are oversubscribed and determines among many things, new trails.. oh and it will apply to other riding areas on Table mountain.

 

But of course you know all this because you have taken the time to read around on the hub and stay informed before making clever comments..

- I don't need to read a forum to see what is going on in Tokai regarding the quality of the trails and number of people riding them, my comments are justified and any one can see that more effort has been put into the DH tracks in the last 6 months than anywhere else in tokai.

 

- Explained, yet you continue.. are you angered by us choosing to start with the DH? I will not start a new project without finishing what has been started, it will cast a poor image of our work standards to the landowner. It took ± six volunteer build days, so what!

 

I was not requesting a whole network of new trails at a huge expense and approval nightmare, just maintenance of exisiting trails.This has come up in conversation many a time with fellow riders who are all of the same opinion.

 

- You moan about the trails being oversubscribed higher up but here state you do not want new trails, just for them to be fixed. Again, without vision or future projections in mind. Do we want better trails?

 

- I also feel that your comments are condescending.

 

- Your comments are ambiguous. I apologise for any offence but your request for work on the XC trail was confirmed 4 pages ago. I do not understand why you persist.

 

 

If we have been able to achieve all this since June, can you imagine what is coming for the XC track??

 

Read this again... what is your intended tone? Does this read in support of our efforts? This is after I confirmed the XC track was next in schedule. Plus you have bundled me in with these so called "dumb comments".. you clearly end this post with doubt to my abilities and make defamatory remarks about the people who support me. Not on!

 

"You are missing the point here Pos, as I suspected would happen. If I raise a point about the trail maintenance the first thing that happens is that I get dumb comments about how many build days everyone has attended. That is not the point guys !! If that is your big issue why not raise funds and get hired help to assist with the building ? The point is there are thousands of riders in Tokai who would all like to see the XC trails fixed or more trails built. Also I ride in Tokai all the time and I have never seen any info about a build day!!! How are you guys even advertising this ? Not all riders in Tokai are on the forum. Debating one's level of ability to ride technical/broken trails etc is also missing the point. I think the wong people are in charge here !"

[david16v]

This topic is classic!!

 

Reading all this stuff from London, priceless!

 

I think the main problem PoS is that no one knows who you are but yet you want to be in control of all the maintenance in/around Tokai!

Only the DH riders know who you are from the build days, but why don't you stand at the Tokai gate on a Saturday and Sunday with some flyers handing them out encouraging new/old cyclists to come and join the build days.

 

In that way every single cyclist can see what 'your' plans are towards the trails and which areas will get attention, in a particular order.

 

Only a select few actually use the hub, but yet you guys (capricorn, PoS, jimmy hardtail, cptmayhem) think you are the 'manne' from Tokai!

 

I have met you (PoS) on the trails once before and I'm surprised that your helmet fits your head! Keep ruling the Hub......and Tokai....or think that you do!

Edited March 8, 2012 by david16v

[(Deon)]

Ah David, thanks for the kind words... always a pleasure. Oh and I think I would remember if I met you.

[jimmy hardtail]

Ahh david! Its never a pointless argument until you chirp in! Now this thread has been rendered useless. Only kidding. Seriously though, none of the “manne“ consider themselves anything special, we are just prepared to put in the hours to get what we want to ride. And actually we all like different kinds of trails. If there was a group of xc riders who took an interest like we do then things might be different, but there doesn't seem to be anyone willing to step up and actually DO SOMETHING. Talk is cheap, the hub is free, but sweat builds trails, not words.

[Capricorn]

actually.. im hardly better than you( except that i know not only how it looks, but also how to use a spade) in that i dont lay my sweat down as much as the real "manne"..so im going to have to decline your generous attempt at conferring a title, such a lofty one at that.

[Capricorn]

darn jimmy.. that last line is deep!!

[(Deon)]

Jimmy, the last post for the day. So what should we talk about today?

 

I did not want to be the one to manage the trails at Tokai, ask Cobus, I put up strong resistance.. but the truth be told, I worked with him for so many years, how could I leave when he left, there would be no-one left to continue the relationship with SANParks. I hope you don't think I enjoy taking an average 8k knock in my monthly salary.. but I do it because of the state of the trails and I am passionate about this sport much like Jimmy is, like Cap (yes you!), like the madman Mayhem, DJR, FatPixi, Vince, Daneger, MariusD, Yumeya, the Lord (don't ask), Omega (or Morzine for short), iRide Dan, the list is long.. these guys take only pride and thanks as payment and the perk is good, open trails.

[Pappa Bear]

I am willing to help build any trails - just let me know when, I can unfortunatly only spare 1/2 a Saturday or Sunday due to family commitments - and that other hobby of mine called work.

 

Some will only realize how lucky they had it once Tokai gets closed for MTBers........

[Karate Monkey]

Seems like there are plenty of guys on this forum hating the guys who actually do something to help build, repair and communicate with the authorities, or maybe they are just jealous and hate DH riders because of that. Sounds pretty damn childish!