The problem is NOT cyclist

[Niner]

so you saying it's better to become part of the problem, or worse, a new menace?

 

interesting...

I did not say become part of the problem.

I say 2 things

1 = Motorist have c@rp attitudes.

2 = Our laws do not cater for cyclist and sometimes we have to do things to stay alive(is Jump onto a pavement where there is sign saying NO Cyclist)

3 = Stop being so harsh on fellow cyclist

[Niner]

Niner, also missed the grammar & spelling class one cyclist /two cyclists ................. one motorist/two motorists. An interesting post to read, but hard work to decipher what is being said ..............................................

 

Well done for spotting that, I am still learing....and can only learn if you kindly point it out.

I is only getting the lend /borrow fing right sometimes now.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I did not say become part of the problem.

I say 2 things

1 = Motorist have c@rp attitudes.

2 = Our laws do not cater for cyclist and sometimes we have to do things to stay alive(is Jump onto a pavement where there is sign saying NO Cyclist)

3 = Stop being so harsh on fellow cyclist

your post here is grossly contradictory of what your actual stance is. You ARE part of the problem, and are awaiting a Darwinian tragedy. Moreover, you are in the practice of inciting more hatred towards cyclists.

 

How can you not be part of the problem, yet flagrantly disregard the laws themselves, and proudly so?

[covie]

 

I also remember being ****-scared of the cops when I was a kid on my bmx. Maybe times have changed I don't know.

 

Edit : Also remember the traffic stuff at pre-primary - we had little roads and plastic bikes too. Very cool.

 

Today I have a 14 year old daughter and it suprises me to think back that I was allowed to cycle a 12k round trip to school down the main road - at age 13 - with no helmet nogal.

 

Luke at this specific incident i was 6 almost 7 just cycled to my best mates house on the other side of town, probably about 5km at that stage of the fight, crossed two busy "main" roads to get there. It was just ........ normal.

[Niner]

your post here is grossly contradictory of what your actual stance is. You ARE part of the problem, and are awaiting a Darwinian tragedy. Moreover, you are in the practice of inciting more hatred towards cyclists.

 

How can you not be part of the problem, yet flagrantly disregard the laws themselves, and proudly so?

 

I am not asking others to do what I do. I gave you a reason why I cross some red lights, because I feel is it SAFER to do so than stop. At some lights I stop and wait as it is the safer option.

 

I am saying that people in SA will HATE all the time, and today it is cyclist, tomorrow runners, then whatever next. How come you comment and one aspect of my post, lets remove the part where I told you what I did and look at the amount of laws being broken by motorists.

 

Let’s say I did as you say, stopped at all the lights etc. What would your response have been to all the motorists doing the things I saw this AM?

 

My point is that we in SA are fighting a losing battle(I am not saying stop the fight) I say we are LOOSING...we have no assistance from the authorities, fellow road users etc. People do what they want on the roads (leave cyclist out of this for a moment) You cannot tell me that they are acting like this because of cyclists.

 

THAT IS MY POINT!

Edited February 10, 2012 by Niner

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Never once did any of us say that they (motorists) act befok because of the cyclist fraternity. However, your flagrant disregard for the law (as well as others of your creed) add to their frustration, which only makes us worse in their eyes, and exacerbates the bad behaviour we see on the roads.

 

Yes, if you take cyclists away the madness shall remain, but there will be no more disregard for cyclists. As long as we are on the road, we need to make sure that we are respected & recognised as a user group. You are in no way contributing to that level of respect, and are in fact decreasing it day by day when you roll through stop streets & red lights. We, in effect (thanks to riders like yourself) have the same reputation as taxis. Which I despise.

 

The reason we are all lambasting you, Niner, is that you perpetually try to convince us that what you are doing is acceptable when it is quite simply not.

 

Just get rid of this type of attitude, top it up with some "responsible citizen" and come back when you've learnt how to behave and endear us to the motoring world.

 

And here's a tip - running red lights & stop streets is not the right way to behave, although you certainly like arguing against that fact in the name of "safety" - a misnomer if I ever heard one.

[Niner]

Never once did any of us say that they (motorists) act befok because of the cyclist fraternity. However, your flagrant disregard for the law (as well as others of your creed) add to their frustration, which only makes us worse in their eyes, and exacerbates the bad behaviour we see on the roads.

 

Yes, if you take cyclists away the madness shall remain, but there will be no more disregard for cyclists. As long as we are on the road, we need to make sure that we are respected & recognised as a user group. You are in no way contributing to that level of respect, and are in fact decreasing it day by day when you roll through stop streets & red lights. We, in effect (thanks to riders like yourself) have the same reputation as taxis. Which I despise.

 

The reason we are all lambasting you, Niner, is that you perpetually try to convince us that what you are doing is acceptable when it is quite simply not.

 

Just get rid of this type of attitude, top it up with some "responsible citizen" and come back when you've learnt how to behave and endear us to the motoring world.

 

And here's a tip - running red lights & stop streets is not the right way to behave, although you certainly like arguing against that fact in the name of "safety" - a misnomer if I ever heard one.

 

Whatever.....until you have riden on my route with me...I dont think you will be able to understand.......

 

Edit: And what do you guys to improve the attitude of the REST of SA wrt to adhering to RULES?

Don't answer, because I know = not much as it is to difficult = we rather come to the hub and complain about cyclist.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Niner

[LeTurbo]

Some alternatives ...

[covie]

chaps i think niner has been ripped enough of a "new one" dont you moral of the story here is that saffa's suck on the road be it in cars, or on bikes

 

This has now become part of the SA culture and its not going to change unless there is some serious intervention of sorts. All i can say is keep your side of the story clean, hitting a car or a pedestrian or a cyclist becuase you lost your temper will never stand you in good stead ever. Regardless of your mode of transport at the time.

[stratus5]

You are of course all riding within the boundaries of the yellow line, which is of course illegal. Why do you do it? Because its safer!

 

I commute and sometimes if you are more posistive and clear in what you want to do, then motorists will treat you more like another vehicle. BUT if you come to a halt and unclip at a stop street for example, rather than rolling through slowly when its your turn, then the hesitation is where problems start and motorists get annoyed and start to take chances as you struggle to start, reclip and get up to speed. You are breaking the law, but its safer and most importantly you have not inconvienced the motorist in any way. Starting a second or two ahead of the pack on red if the crossing lanes are clear and you are trying to turn is way safer. I have seen a picture somewhere of cycle lanes that were designed to start ahead of where the cars stopped at intersections.

 

I have not had a motorist shout at me in years and always thank anybody who has made an effort to help me through an intersection etc. Perhaps because I have a smile and establish eye contact, I generally have a pleasant ride. With eye contact, and a smile I more often than not get waved through, rather than a vehicle insisting on their rights, because they can see I am vulnerable.

 

Yes, motorists do do stupid things and I get cut off on corners etc, but I stopped getting angry, or at least try and calm down quickly I try never to insult the motorist or to follow it up any further. By staying positive, I notice the small courtesies from other motorists, which I might have otherwise missed.

 

Where it all breaks down is consideration! I try not to inconvenience other road users, even if I am legally entitled to. The MAIN reason we piss off motorists is because we slow them down in some way. If we stopped riding two abreast or more, then much of the antagonism towards us will go away. Nearly all written complaints I have ever seen were about cyclists taking up too much of the road.

 

Want to improve our relationship with drivers, forget the small stuff and ride SINGLE file where we may imapct on their journeys.

[Headshot]

+1, and our friend Niner keeps upholding that attitude with all he has... such a pity

 

Thats not actually what he is doing or saying. Cyclists are vulnerable on the road in ways a car or even a motorcyclist isn't. I have been hit by a car whose driver simply didnt look. Many other near misses attest to the fact that motorists, and especially I think, non cycling motorists have little idea how to share the road with non motorised transport.

 

The way I read him, Niner is saying that staying alive or safe on our roads demands a different approach from cyclists. The chorus of "but you have to comply with road rules to have your rights respected" has some merit, but if jumping a light where there is no traffic approaching helps ensure you have a safer passage through a busy intersection, then shouldn't it be tolerated?

 

I ride on the pavement on my MTB at times to stay out of the way of cars on my route to a local riding spot - in doing so I avoid the scene of my knock down and avoid some seriously dangerous intersections in my area. Also breaking the law I think, but I do it to stay safe, and do so responsibly so that pedestrians are not harmed. In the absence of cycle lanes, is my behaviour acceptable or simply illegal and not to be tolerated, despite the fact that its my life at risk? Or should I as I have seen on a Brit web site, simply choose a different route?

 

There are many grey areas in this debate, its not as clear as you and other seem to think it is...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

You are of course all riding within the boundaries of the yellow line, which is of course illegal. Why do you do it? Because its safer!

 

It's actually not illegal to ride in the yellow lane, Stratus. RTA says that you as a road user may make use of the yellow lane if you need to let someone else pass, and it is safe to do so. Seeing as motorists are always passing cyclists, it is therefore legal (within the bounds of the law, and if it is a busy road and people are passing all the time) to ride in the yellow lane. The same cannot be said of riding in the yellow lane on a freeway, or a motorway where riding is prohibited.

[Niner]

 

Want to improve our relationship with drivers, forget the small stuff and ride SINGLE file where we may imapct on their journeys.

Many other near misses attest to the fact that motorists, and especially I think, non cycling motorists have little idea how to share the road with non motorised transport.

 

The way I read him, Niner is saying that staying alive or safe on our roads demands a different approach from cyclists. The chorus of "but you have to comply with road rules to have your rights respected" has some merit, but if jumping a light where there is no traffic approaching helps ensure you have a safer passage through a busy intersection, then shouldn't it be tolerated?

 

 

Thank you, 2 people who understands me

:clap:

[Niner]

It's actually not illegal to ride in the yellow lane, Stratus. RTA says that you as a road user may make use of the yellow lane if you need to let someone else pass, and it is safe to do so. Seeing as motorists are always passing cyclists, it is therefore legal (within the bounds of the law, and if it is a busy road and people are passing all the time) to ride in the yellow lane. The same cannot be said of riding in the yellow lane on a freeway, or a motorway where riding is prohibited.

 

 

Sorry you are wrong, you are not supposed to STAY riding in the yellow lane...you should move there, let someone pass and move back. Driving there or riding there continuously is illegal and I have seen Traffic cops dishing out fine for exactly that.

[Headshot]

"The risk of being killed in traffic per kilometre travelled, is over 4 times higher for pedestrians and cyclists than car drivers (ETSC, 1999)."

 

This is the sobering statistic off the Arrive Alives website. I think the stat for injured as opposed to killed is probably even higher...

[Capricorn]

actually, that's exactly how I 'read Niner's posts. in fact, it comes across as pretty belligerent (they drive like this, they drive like that, it's never gonna stop, go scold them not me on my bike blah blah ad nauseum) in that regard. In traffic, the minute you do something contrary to the convention, which is the rules of the road, you create an unexpected situation, one in which you've automatically placed your safety, as well as the safety of those around in, in state of increased uncertainty.

No one's taken a holier than though approach, but of course some ppl just cant help themselves in their desperation to get one over, that when someone gives the generally good advice of sticking to the rules of the road, or point obvious rule breaking, to spin it as a holier than though approach.

 

As has been highlighted many times now, once u start advocating rule breaking as a rule, and believe you are completely infallible while doing so, then you on a slippery slope. Eccentric's example clearly shows the end result of everyone applying that mentality.

 

Despite Niner using the "war out there argument", I suspect there is an element of embellishment which masks a very likely reason behind not respecting the rules of the road more than not: "bad habits", 'My flow's more important than a stupid robot" etc.

Hell, many times i wished i didnt have to stop cos well, i'm just njoying the riding so much. But there's more to just my own needs when out on public roads. Whether niner, or any other red robot hero acknowledges it or not, every single cyclist out on a public road, has some power over the safety of other road users. While i dont always like the rules of the road, I accept they are there as a common basis for public safety. Respecting those rules shows common respect for all other road users, and i hope that when I screw up out there, that a fellow cyclist will do the right thing and remind me of the need to act accordingly, rather than some tool reaching into his boot to show me how his wheel wrench really works.