Driving to the Argus Race - be careful .....

[ibruegge]

Mr ibruegge you have made quite a few very caustic remarks on this topic. Can you please be ever so helpfull and obtain a SADC RTSM Novemeber 1997 (or later edition) and confirm that the information below is correct. I do not have the full edition here in Nigeria.

 

This will be your contribution to bring some intelligent value to this discussion

 

PS. I got another Red Snapper as a gift, not fresh but frozen this time. Even after I tried to explain to the person after the previous fracas that it is a "Red" listed species in South Africa. Should I throw it away or should I eat it?

 

Am sure your info is correct. You have convinced me, I will from now on also speed and find nothing wrong with it.

[Big H*]

I drive around SA a lot and one thing I can say is that signage is a huge problem. And in a lot of cases I do think it is deliberate by the local authorities. It is very easy to miss a sign while legally passing a truck or something. Speed signs and other trafffic signs are often stolen or vandalised. And for you to come back and defend your case is expensive. So to sit on the side line and think it is your own fault for speeding is a bit one track minded in my opinion. I stick to within the speed limits but it is still easy to get caught speeding because of poor / vandalised signage.

 

Then there are all the constructions sites which make life even more interresting. You can not believe how often I pass sections of road where they have done maintenance, and everything is cleared up but the 60 km/h sign was left behind 1 km down the road.

 

If signage do not conform to the manual I listed above they are not legal, this will negate any fine you may receive.

 

Various items such as distances form each other, distance form the shoulder breakpoint, size, lettering, reflective quality, line of sight(vertically and horizontally)....... etc etc come to play. This is all rquirements that must be met and if not in place, take them to task on the fine.

 

PS ..... het jy gehoor ek kom terug?????

[Bateleur1]

On the N3N heading towards Gillooly's there is an 80km/h sign one metre in front of a 60km/h sign.

 

Whenever I get my next fine (does not happen very often) I will buy this little manual .... www.trafficfinelaw.co.za. I think it would be interresting to see all the dirty little tricks involved.

[Tumbleweed]

If signage do not conform to the manual I listed above they are not legal, this will negate any fine you may receive.

 

Various items such as distances form each other, distance form the shoulder breakpoint, size, lettering, reflective quality, line of sight(vertically and horizontally)....... etc etc come to play. This is all rquirements that must be met and if not in place, take them to task on the fine.

 

PS ..... het jy gehoor ek kom terug?????

 

But, the trouble is the distanceyou would have to travel to fight the case in court…

[Grebel]

The bottom line is that rules are rules. Obey the speed limit, and while you are driving you should be aware of your surroundings which include being on the lookout for road signs. If however, said signs are obstructed from view, you are entitled to point them out and have your day in court. If you are right you will walk away fine free. If not, you will have to pay the fine. There should be no grey area. Either it is black or it is white. Obey the law. The rules are made and whether they are enforced or not is an issue that you can take up with your local authority. If they are enforced in a certain area, then you need to obey them. Simple.

 

It is no secret that the traffic guys use easy prey to generate income. (Even though it will be vehemently denied) Don't give them the satisfaction. Are they allowed to hide the cameras? Who cares! Do the speed limit and you won't get caught.

 

Simply obey the rules and you can keep your hard earned money.

 

Drive safe

 

(Where's that flame proof emoticon...?)

[Big H*]

 

 

Am sure your info is correct. You have convinced me, I will from now on also speed and find nothing wrong with it.

 

Still no contribution, I think you are a Troll trying to stir......

 

What about my Red Snapper..... eat or throw away??????

[pastapouch]

But, the trouble is the distanceyou would have to travel to fight the case in court…

...ya, and we know how the courts operate in this country...

if your skin is white, you won't get it right...

if your skin is black, you'll get your own back...

[Big H*]

 

 

But, the trouble is the distanceyou would have to travel to fight the case in court…

 

It happened to me once long ago. We happened to have aerial photographs of that section of road. These piccies are so clear and to scale that I was able to identify the signs. A made a sketch overlay, presented it to the state prosecutor by post together with the RTSM tables and guidelines and the case was withdrawn.

[Bateleur1]

Grebel, if this was the perfect world I would agree with you. No need for the flame suit.

 

But this is not the perfect world.

 

So lets say for example you get busted near Beaufort West because the signage is either illegal or not existend there. You get fined say R1000.00. You normally do not get pulled over to make it easy to get all the facts ready on site when the "problem occured" You get mailed two months later. So you are going to spend 2000.00 in petrol money alone (add accomodation and toll fees as well) to prove your point. You will most propably win the case but you are still over 2K out of pocket.

[Tumbleweed]

It happened to me once long ago. We happened to have aerial photographs of that section of road. These piccies are so clear and to scale that I was able to identify the signs. A made a sketch overlay, presented it to the state prosecutor by post together with the RTSM tables and guidelines and the case was withdrawn.

 

Nice one. I just rolled over and agreed to the fine.

[Eldron]

You okes and your law threads - you're going to make me say it again aren't you? C'mon. Whats this like the 8th time?

 

Brain trumps law 10 times out of 10.

 

Driving at 120km/h in a hail storm is legal but stupid.

Likewise - driving at 120km/h on a highway in poor condition, with a squatter camp on the side, in the dark is also completely legal but frikkin stupid.

 

Anyone who's only argument is "the law is THE LAW - we must obey without question" is a dimwitted muppit with a dry sponge for a brain and a piece of granite for an attitude.

 

I think I'm going to print off a billion "Think first" bumper stickers.

[Grebel]

Grebel, if this was the perfect world I would agree with you. No need for the flame suit.

 

But this is not the perfect world.

 

So lets say for example you get busted near Beaufort West because the signage is either illegal or not existend there. You get fined say R1000.00. You normally do not get pulled over to make it easy to get all the facts ready on site when the "problem occured" You get mailed two months later. So you are going to spend 2000.00 in petrol money alone (add accomodation and toll fees as well) to prove your point. You will most propably win the case but you are still over 2K out of pocket.

 

I read your post after I posted. I agree that there are going to be some areas of concern such as overtaking into a town where the speed reduction areas are. Getting caught there would be deemed as bad luck. In that case, you could argue both ways. Going back would be an expensive exercise agreed, but sending a letter to the clerk of the court explaining the situation can also go a long way to either getting your fine reduced or overturned.

 

If you get caught and you have a record of speeding, your chances are slim, but if you have a clean record, you stand a better chance. I know that this isn't a perfect world but it is always worth a shot at getting it reduced.

 

If you want to play hardball, you can also sit and wait for the summons to appear in court (Make them work for their money) and when it comes, you can pay the fine. That way you feel better about parting with your cash because they had to work for it

 

I decided a while ago that it wasn't worth speeding and stick to the limit. I don't have to spend money on laser detectors and my trip is a lot less stressful. All I have to do is look out for speed signs. Much easier and so far it has worked for me. The trip is usually a lot less stressful as well.

 

Nobody is perfect and we will all get caught sometime. The frequency depends on you...

Edited March 5, 2012 by Grebel

[Underachiever]

Same goes for all the dorps along national roads now, its a national pandemic! Watch out for the 100 - 80 - 60 signs everywhere.

 

Yep, Richmond is very innovative in moving camera's around. I was extremely careful keeping at the speed limits in Dec and still got caught.

[Tumbleweed]

I think I'm going to print off a billion "Think first" bumper stickers.

 

Think twice before you do that. I don't think it's a profitable venture…a billion is too many.

[pastapouch]

You okes and your law threads - you're going to make me say it again aren't you? C'mon. Whats this like the 8th time?

OPh come on, lighten up... its fun. Dont' take it so seriaaazzzz

 

Brain trumps law 10 times out of 10.

that becomes a problem when the lawmakers don't have brains...

 

Driving at 120km/h in a hail storm is legal but stupid.

Likewise - driving at 120km/h on a highway in poor condition, with a squatter camp on the side, in the dark is also completely legal but frikkin stupid.

true, sadly the law isn't used for safety reasons anymore... I drive down Christiaan De Wet raod every day, and every day there are cops on the downhill between Ontdekkers and Jim Fouche. Every day, there hassn't been an acciden't there from when I can remmebr. Its just because its a downhill and people frewheel there at 70km/h , and now we have to waste the energy and money on replacing brake pads. what the little Johnny joke again, does whore aexists? Yes, where do you think cops come from."

Anyone who's only argument is "the law is THE LAW - we must obey without question" is a dimwitted muppit with a dry sponge for a brain and a piece of granite for an attitude.

true

 

I think I'm going to print off a billion "Think first" bumper stickers.

I think you're missing a step, "Get a brain" must precede that.

[Bateleur1]

I read your post after I posted. I agree that there are going to be some areas of concern such as overtaking into a town where the speed reduction areas are. Getting caught there would be deemed as bad luck. In that case, you could argue both ways. Going back would be an expensive exercise agreed, but sending a letter to the clerk of the court explaining the situation can also go a long way to either getting your fine reduced or overturned.

 

If you get caught and you have a record of speeding, your chances are slim, but if you have a clean record, you stand a better chance. I know that this isn't a perfect world but it is always worth a shot at getting it reduced.

 

If you want to play hardball, you can also sit and wait for the summons to appear in court (Make them work for their money) and when it comes, you can pay the fine. That way you feel better about parting with your cash because they had to work for it

 

I decided a while ago that it wasn't worth speeding and stick to the limit. I don't have to spend money on laser detectors and my trip is a lot less stressful. All I have to do is look out for speed signs. Much easier and so far it has worked for me. The trip is usually a lot less stressful as well.

 

Nobody is perfect and we will all get caught sometime. The frequency depends on you...

 

Agreed.

 

My debate is about the statement that you deserve it if being caught speeding. In most cases yes but not always. Signage is a huge problem in this country and exploited by our beloved local authorities.