team bonitas at argus 2012

[SFDT]

Malcolm Lange ‏ @LangeMalcolm

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So I have a rider @ianmcleod80 with a damaged shoulder cause the rules are broken again 375 starters in Elite bunch! Why do we licence?

 

 

 

 

7:44 AM - 12 Mar 12 via UberSocial for BlackBerry · Details

do you guys know what happened here, where there to many riders in the first bunch? illegaly?

how do they manage to get in there?

[American Flyers]

They put Sub-Vet and Juniors with Elites and pros......as part of Category 1

[DaleE]

let me see if I understand this .... he's grumpy because there were 375 in the group?? We had 425 in our group, no one crashed, time was good and those who were fast enough were there at the end together for a bunch sprint .... despite 2 dogs running into the road at Scarborough!!

 

A crash is caused by stupidity / testosterone overload / ride error / etc .... not the size of the bunch. Unfortunately it's one of the risks in this sport. Can you imagine the Team managers for TdF blaming a crash on the size of the bunch??

 

Its a fun ride ... and a BIIIIIG one .... there are lots of people .... some folk had to walk up chappies due to the traffic jam of bikes .... we had to stop for the dogs in scarborough ..... Im sure others had other "hiccups"..... but everyone I spoke to enjoyed it ..... that's just the nature of the ride!!

[andydude]

let me see if I understand this .... he's grumpy because there were 375 in the group?? We had 425 in our group, no one crashed, time was good and those who were fast enough were there at the end together for a bunch sprint .... despite 2 dogs running into the road at Scarborough!! A crash is caused by stupidity / testosterone overload / ride error / etc .... not the size of the bunch. Unfortunately it's one of the risks in this sport. Can you imagine the Team managers for TdF blaming a crash on the size of the bunch?? Its a fun ride ... and a BIIIIIG one .... there are lots of people .... some folk had to walk up chappies due to the traffic jam of bikes .... we had to stop for the dogs in scarborough ..... Im sure others had other "hiccups"..... but everyone I spoke to enjoyed it ..... that's just the nature of the ride!!

 

Dude what group were you in? I agree with very little of your post. TdF has around 200 guys, so much less than 375. And they are all on the same level, which wasn't the case with the Elite bunch. For the first group it is definitely not a funride, and right or wrong, one of the best to win in SA to make a name for yourself.

[Lucky Luke.]

The $ / VA bunch was too big. No doubt. Two massive crashes. Malcolm is referring to UCI rules which limit the bunch size to 200. Argus is no longer UCI classified / part of the Giro, so they made the bunch bigger.

 

Difference between the $ bunch and the funrider bunches is obvious and 350 riders is an accident waiting to happen. And we only had to wait 9 minutes for the first one.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Lucky Luke.

[Cv2]

DaleE, your post holds no water, there is a difference when there are 150 riders who are so way out of their depth and are on their absolute limit that whenthings happen in a split second they are totally out ridden in strength and speed and bike handling that when something happens they are unable to react in a positive manner and there casue huge crashes. I would like you with your current seeded skill to ride in this gorup, I will bet you wont last till Wynberg hill and if you did whent he group swerves for a punctured rider or a dropped chain at 70kmh you will not be able ot react.

 

The group you ride in had rider sall of similar skill and strength therefore the group was safe. Elite wasnt, there were SV riders, development and "elite" riders in that bunch who finish 5-10min or more off the winner in local league now they got to ride against SA's very top Pro riders. No chance.

 

With regards to your TDF comment, you are also wrong, there was alot of criticism againt the Sojur team who were given a wildcard to ride and they happend to cause many of the bunch crashes due to their lack of skill and being otu of their depth.

 

The Elite group was to big by about 150 riders. Malcolm has evey right to complain and has full valid reason to.

[nuge]

without requesting a re-seed (i was originally seeded in A) i was reseeded into the VA group starting with the elites in the week before the event. presumably there was a "cancellation" and my name got called, which meant that i was one of the back-markers in the field already.

 

now i'm a middle-of-the-pack subvet cat rider/also-ran and as excited as i was to start with the top guys in the country i knew i had no real business being there. i mean, never mind riding with professional athletes, i had no illusions of winning my age group - i know very well how strong my competitors are.

 

with this in mind i stayed near the middle to back of the field trying to keep out of trouble (i'd crashed a few weeks prior when i slipped on some oil in a local league race and was still nursing a shoulder strain) and quietly slipped off the back of the group (ok, i blew big time - and probably because i'd stayed near the middle to the back of the field) when we were heading through fishoek.

 

while i'm grateful i got to experience racing with the big guns (albeit for about 40 minutes) i reckon that i probably should not have been placed in that start group. so there are definitely some questions out there. it just sounds like there was a little too much difference in ability in the elite start group.

[MTB_Roadie]

okay....regarding the Lange tweet, if his team won would he still be bitching? Sounds to me he is a bit sour

[two hands]

Nuge, a very humble and honest assessment of the Elite bunch. Kudos, brother.

 

I agree with you, it was too big. I think once riders have experienced the intensity of that bunch they'll willingly cede their spot to make up a safer (slightly slower) bunch starting 3-5 minutes later.

 

Once we'd all got over the ego/flattery of being a $ rider, that is! I'd happily give up my top-100 position to ride in safety, with confidence in the organisers' ability to create a bunch of peers regarding strength and skill. The reality is that one unsafe or undergunned rider is a liability felt by the entire bunch.

[DaleE]

The $ / VA bunch was too big. No doubt. Two massive crashes. Malcolm is referring to UCI rules which limit the bunch size to 200. Argus is no longer UCI classified / part of the Giro, so they made the bunch bigger.

 

 

Ok, it seems I may have been a bit fast on the draw here .....I was not aware of the 200 rider limit, nor the fact that they had lumped novices with pro's (sounds like the wrong ratio of ego to skill in that front group!). So, I apologise if the comments were out of line. I guess Lange has a point then.

 

I would like you with your current seeded skill to ride in this gorup, I will bet you wont last till Wynberg hill ........

 

The group you ride in had riders all of similar skill and strength therefore the group was safe. Elite wasnt, there were SV riders, development and "elite" riders in that bunch who finish 5-10min or more off the winner in local league now they got to ride against SA's very top Pro riders.

 

You're totally wrong about me lasting to Wynberg hill with them ... wouldn't even make it to the Holiday Inn !! ... and have NO desire to try.

[Bike Mob]

You cant blame the SV's they race all year and know how to handle a bike, plus finish higher than half the elites field in most races on time.

 

The elites ..well they deserve to be there, pro's obviously too.

 

The development riders...um not so much. These guys have not been riding their bikes for years and years like the rest of the racing fraternity. The U23's usually are good and also come up from juniors and U16's etc.

 

The crash originated in the front 3rd of the field - saying that; it was most likely caused by the faster guys. the group slowed up front (who knows why - nobody should have been anywhere near their brake levers), the back end caught rapidly and there was no room to go. I went into the back of someone in the first row of crashes, many piled in behind. I was lucky to rescue my bike and continue racing.

 

Racetec often start bigger groups together when there are "natural selectors" . With a fast start up Eastern Boulevard and Edinburgh drive so early on in the race the "I shouldn't be here's" would have been shelled.and the 200 mark would have been more of a reality.

[Lucky Luke.]

You cant blame the SV's they race all year and know how to handle a bike, plus finish higher than half the elites field in most races on time.

 

The elites ..well they deserve to be there, pro's obviously too.

 

The development riders...um not so much. These guys have not been riding their bikes for years and years like the rest of the racing fraternity. The U23's usually are good and also come up from juniors and U16's etc.

 

The crash originated in the front 3rd of the field - saying that; it was most likely caused by the faster guys. the group slowed up front (who knows why - nobody should have been anywhere near their brake levers), the back end caught rapidly and there was no room to go. I went into the back of someone in the first row of crashes, many piled in behind. I was lucky to rescue my bike and continue racing.

 

Racetec often start bigger groups together when there are "natural selectors" . With a fast start up Eastern Boulevard and Edinburgh drive so early on in the race the "I shouldn't be here's" would have been shelled.and the 200 mark would have been more of a reality.

 

I was told by the guy next to him at the time that a recent Argus winner * cough cough * hit the wheel in front and caused the first lie down.

 

Aside from issues with bike handling skills, there is a problem with the bunch size when you consider the intensity of the racing, the pressure for 'TV Time' that the pros / elites are under and the need to be on or off the front that this creates.

 

Hard and fast racing is great, but a bunch of 350 is too big for this event. I won't race in a bunch that size again, even if it means I get demoted to a separate VA bunch, I'm totally fine with that.

[1hill@aTime]

agreed bunches are getting way too BIG and way to many crashes lately,

[onetrackmind]

 

 

With regards to your TDF comment, you are also wrong, there was alot of criticism againt the Sojur team who were given a wildcard to ride and they happend to cause many of the bunch crashes due to their lack of skill and being otu of their depth.

 

 

 

I have been watching the TDF since '82... and every year there is a scapegoat team/nation for the natural crashes that will happen when you have 200 guys trying to race. It was the Columbians - Cafe de Columbia etc - then it became the Basques - you saw an a=orange jersey near a crash and it was his fault - now it is the wildcard teams.

[jiggs]

Ek stem, daar is genoeg SV om hulle eie groep te vorm.