flymango Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Please enlighten me. On day 2 of Sani this year, I was telling my wife that the front brake is your friend and apply both front and back brakes evenly going into the switchback, and then feather (spelling?) the front brake to give you momentum out of the turn. The guy behind us then chirps that the back brake is your friend and the front brake is an accident waiting to happen. In my opinion, too much back brake and you start dragging, with no control over the direction you want the bike to go. I was again tickled by his comment going down Contermans and Hillcrest yesterday. How should one ride downhill switchbacks?
Zac.A Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Please enlighten me. On day 2 of Sani this year, I was telling my wife that the front brake is your friend and apply both front and back brakes evenly going into the switchback, and then feather (spelling?) the front brake to give you momentum out of the turn. The guy behind us then chirps that the back brake is your friend and the front brake is an accident waiting to happen. In my opinion, too much back brake and you start dragging, with no control over the direction you want the bike to go. I was again tickled by his comment going down Contermans and Hillcrest yesterday. How should one ride downhill switchbacks? Front brake a little and back brake on hard to slide yourself around the corner. Fastest way there is.
(Deon) Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Front brake a little and back brake on hard to slide yourself around the corner. Fastest way there is. Hey, don't let me catch you sliding your back round corners.. (ah kidding, but give some thought to those fixing the brake ruts..) Sliding is only useful when the corner allows, i.e., you have enough speed going into the corner and enough room to pedal out. My suggestion is to feather the front and use the back to guide the bike.. braking with the rear actually keeps the stability without sacrificing speed. Leaning also comes into play here, keeping weight vertically over the bike while leaning the bike into the corner allows the tires to hold their grip and centres you for the exit. Andro and Dan Dob 2
Baaisikilist Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Front brakes slow you down, rear brakes steer your ass through corners.Do your hard braking (mostly on the front anchors) before you enter the turn, release them as you turn, if you feel like youre still too fast mid corner then feather them lightly and both evenly. Front brakes are only the enemy if you grab a handful when youre already pitched into a corner and at the limit of your tyre's traction, ie on the sides of the tyre where the contact patch is smaller. Also, soften your front tyre pressure slightly if you usually have it quite hard, this allows it to 'mould' better to the shape of the terrain and give you more rubber in contact with the ground. The oke behind you was clueless if the front brakes are the route to an accident. Why then on cars and motorbikes are the front disks the biggest and not the rear. All the stopping power is at the front of the forwad rolling mass. Edited June 11, 2012 by MTBaaisikilist
Stretch Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 slight front before the turn - back during the turn - the tighter you turn on the corner the less back brake you need...and yes you can do hard back and slide it - but trail builders get red when they see that that same guy that made that comment prob doesnt use his front on singletrack at all
Stretch Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 snap @MTBaaisikilist...you just said it a bit better
(Deon) Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 .and yes you can do hard back and slide it - but trail builders get red when they see that
Bike Lore Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) this is tricky. the answer to your question will changed depending who the rider is. If it is my wife i would agree with the chirpy biker. If you don't have fine control then in all likely hood there will be some nosediving. Her intent is to get through the turn. in one peace. not to the be the fastest. For me the aim is to control the speed before i get in to the turn and then power out. The idea is to use the maximum amount of traction for chaining direction not braking. You can control your speed during the turn with the rear and front brake but by then it is to late to really brake. Edited June 11, 2012 by Hannes Zietsman
Bike Lore Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 sliding your bike looks cool but that is about it. It is very likely that you will be off balance when you exit and then will require some effort before you really can put in power. If you are under control then you can start powering 3/4 of the turn.
flymango Posted June 11, 2012 Author Posted June 11, 2012 Apologies. Imperfect information and you get confusing answers. "Ride" is a strong word as it implies racing speed in and out of the switchback. Maybe I should have said "Survive" instead. And for more perspective, up until then my wife was only applying her back brake and hence I thought getting out of line (and hence control) from the back wheel dragging either left and/or right of her exit line. And yes, the other guy was suggesting leave the front brake completely. My common sense and limited skills tell me to be at least be 50/50 into the turn, feather front during and then release both out of - downhill momentum will do the rest.
CatGirl Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Al wat ek kan se: me...girl...1.58 hmmm al wat ek doen op single track..lean in... anticipate...as ek moet switchback: ek swaai my knie uit in die draai...help my om my balans te hou hier oppie hub is erens, iemand wat die selfde vraag gehad het en iemand 'n utube video ge"post' het ek het daai raad gevolg en gewerk soos 'n bom.. sal gou kyk waa daai vid is
(Deon) Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Apologies. Imperfect information and you get confusing answers. "Ride" is a strong word as it implies racing speed in and out of the switchback. Maybe I should have said "Survive" instead. And for more perspective, up until then my wife was only applying her back brake and hence I thought getting out of line (and hence control) from the back wheel dragging either left and/or right of her exit line. And yes, the other guy was suggesting leave the front brake completely. My common sense and limited skills tell me to be at least be 50/50 into the turn, feather front during and then release both out of - downhill momentum will do the rest. Great thing is you can do all of the above at any speed... except powerslides of course. The same principle applies, in fact it turns your 'survival' tactics into fun - no more apprehension. Look up the Lopes/McCormack books or vids, they also recommend control vs speed when practicing.. You can slowly start to speed up what you learn. Practice off the trail as much as you can, that helps in understanding your brakes.. and corners on tar in figure of eights will teach proper leaning. ..and please excuse Zac, it seems he's used to low-level flying straight out the the start gate.. ( ) watching you.. flymango 1
J0KER Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Certain skids arent too bad! Just get the tail out fast as you can so the bike slides sideways. And don't put weight on the rear aswel, that's when you do some damage to the poor track! I found it helped when doing Giba's DH course
patches Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 As has been said before... do your braking n a straight line before you get to the corner. Think of the gyroscopic forces acting on your wheels. When you lean then bike down it will behave predictably UNLESS you inturrupt those gyros by braking. When you brake with a leaned wheel, it makes the wheel want to stand up straight. Commiting to the corner and not braking is the fastest and (believe it or not) safest way to get through. But it is also the hardest to master. If every 2nd rider out there had mastered the art of railing berms... then we'd have a lot more riders on the DH WC circuit. That being said... here's an alternate way to take a tight corner. Takes some practice, and wouldn't recommend trying this at home kids Front wheel braking... ie. Stoppie around a corner https://vimeo.com/31744541 flymango 1
TheV Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) +-70% of your most "efficient" braking "ability" lies in your front brake, this has been tested and covered in many technical/semi-scientific articles over.time. So you should do all the good things that has been said here, i.e brake before the corner, in ratio of 3:1 front/rear braking, you should practice this and it becomes second nature after 20-30 hours of riding time... also don't forget to have a good cockpit setup, your brakes should not be level to the ground, but rather at an angle so that your wrist is not bent while in your cruising postion, you should also move your level inside towards your stem to give you good 1 finger braking grip but allow some space to have you get both fingers on there if your in trouble. the reach of your brake lever should also be adjusted so that your braking finger is not over extended or over cramped in neutral postion. MTBaaisikilist gives a very good basic description of a very good braking strategy, however, I don't think the OP or anyone else for that matter has really taken the other "guys chrip" into context. If we are talking switchback, braking into them is not so much an issue of slowing down, dragging wheels, or braking ratio's/technique, I actually think where most people get it wrong is with their lines. if you line doesn't allow you to "turn" around the apex of the switchback with a path for your back wheel to follow through, you are going to get it wrong and then you will end up over braking as a natural response and find yourself with 70% of your braking system power IN FRONT, on a downhill swichback, with you on a bad line, probably in a bad seating/balance postion... you will crash... Just as braking is important into a corner, so is your line... Bad braking + Bad line + Bad turning technique = Disaster You need to do them all right, imo. Edited June 12, 2012 by TheV flymango 1
Skott5 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 , with you on a bad line, probably in a bad seating/balance postion... you will crash... Just as braking is important into a corner, so is your line... Bad braking + Bad line + Bad turning technique = Disaster EdzackeryMost people end up too far forward on a downhill switchback, putting you off balance and making it harder to turn.Part of the technique is learning to shift your weight back and srub off speed at the same time. Choose your line and focus on the exit point.
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