Zook Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) @tumbleweed: Lance has had more doping than anyone has.. Well...yes. It seems so. (Tongue in cheek, somewhat. The dude has been my hero for ages. Any doping certainly wasn't the be-all-end-all of his success, and he was in an era of lots of doping. But what does irritate me is his seriously aggressive way of dealing with anyone who, in hindsight, seems to have been right. If you want to write books and say you didn't do it, and call everyone who says you were bad names, then when you're proved to be a doper, face the music, and apologise. I'd love to read his next book: "See, I told you it wasn't about the bike". ) Edited July 12, 2012 by Zook
Zook Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 A good thing about this case is that they are going after the doctors and managers too, for a change. I think these guys are a major source of trouble, but they always seem to keep on rolliing while the atheletes take the fall. Yeah, part of the focus is to go after the "systemic" aspects of doping, rather than punish the end-users who are just replaced each year. Think "arrest the dealers, not the users".
JGR Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Exactly the same as when Voigt and Cancelara set the pace in the mountains for Andy. Of course no one here said a peep, cause they all love cancelara so much. Thats because he has such great hair ...
Garfield2010 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Exactly the same as when Voigt and Cancelara set the pace in the mountains for Andy. Of course no one here said a peep, cause they all love cancelara so much. Who knows? But I would like to believe that Cancelara and Voigt are in general better climbers than the normal sprint-oke. They have proven it before. The same applied that year when Floyd won. His right hand man was..... well lets rather just not go there............ Maybe the mayo-jhooone does give the whole team extra strenght!! Edited July 12, 2012 by Garfield2010
TNT1 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Thats because he has such great hair ... It's cause the okes here are as blind as ****. petatodd 1
Garfield2010 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 It's cause the okes here are as blind as ****. So lets say Cancellara dopes - 0 hypothesis scenario. So what does that do to the okes who beat him at a time trial?
TNT1 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 So lets say Cancellara dopes - 0 hypothesis scenario. So what does that do to the okes who beat him at a time trial? I keep remembering with a wistful smile when Contador beat him in the Tour TT.
Garfield2010 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Thats because he has such great hair ... Thats really funny!
goya-goya Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 I know what you mean Swiss, but its not one witness, its ten, and thats going to be hard to overcome. When a judge is potentially faced with 10 people out there who will say he did it or they saw him do it, thats pretty strong evidence. We also need to remember that witness testimony is accepted as proof and has convicted many people in court, Sandusky was convicted almost solely on witness testimony as the latest fairly high profile case. I agree, bad blood could exist, but I dont think they can chance lying to the USADA, perjury is a major criminal offense especially in the USA and if it go's further and they are found to have committed perjury, they could be facing jail time, not sure they will risk that. In my opinion the only thing that can save LA now is if the Judge decides to challenge USADA's procedures, but to be honest I cant see that either, these are procedures that have been used and tested in other cases with success so its hard to see how the judge will find fault there. Either way, its actually a sad day for sport in general. If the witnesses where coerced into testifying against Lance, by being offered immunity if they witnessed the alleged events... and they were guilty[sic].. it stinks dude! In my humble opinion, we will see Lance vindicated... and UCI and WADA will stop the witch-hunting on past alleged transgressors... very quietly.
TNT1 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) In my humble opinion, we will see Lance vindicated... and UCI and WADA will stop the witch-hunting on past alleged transgressors... very quietly. Not exactly vindicated, but the end result will be the same. That's Lance's only way out of this. Like the six figure donation was his only way out of the '99 positive. Edited July 12, 2012 by TNT1
petatodd Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 If the witnesses where coerced into testifying against Lance, by being offered immunity if they witnessed the alleged events... and they were guilty[sic].. it stinks dude! In my humble opinion, we will see Lance vindicated... and UCI and WADA will stop the witch-hunting on past alleged transgressors... very quietly. You seriously like your coffee cold?
Cyclewizz Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 So lets say Cancellara dopes - 0 hypothesis scenario. So what does that do to the okes who beat him at a time trial? They just doped more :whistling:
The Ghost Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Somebody please wake me up when some evidence comes to light, so far its just jibbering. goya-goya 1
SwissVan Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 WADA expects international compliance with Ferrari, Del Moral and Marti lifetime bans Read more: http://www.velonatio...x#ixzz20OoLq8tZ Thanks Well I suppose being EXPECTED to comply is better than nothing. So i guess some of those "former friends" of Lance with brother (Stefano?) will be thanking their parents LOL I know what you mean Swiss, but its not one witness, its ten, and thats going to be hard to overcome. When a judge is potentially faced with 10 people out there who will say he did it or they saw him do it, thats pretty strong evidence. We also need to remember that witness testimony is accepted as proof and has convicted many people in court, Sandusky was convicted almost solely on witness testimony as the latest fairly high profile case. I agree, bad blood could exist, but I dont think they can chance lying to the USADA, perjury is a major criminal offense especially in the USA and if it go's further and they are found to have committed perjury, they could be facing jail time, not sure they will risk that. In my opinion the only thing that can save LA now is if the Judge decides to challenge USADA's procedures, but to be honest I cant see that either, these are procedures that have been used and tested in other cases with success so its hard to see how the judge will find fault there. Either way, its actually a sad day for sport in general. LA is one of those people who must have had pleeeenty of associates and he's one of those guys who you either like or dont like, it would be easy to find witnesses against and for him. Would the judicial process cater for a defence counter with witnesses who could testify "I never saw him dope, but saw him training like mad" ? WRT to perjury, how do you prove perjury if something is based only on eye witness accounts (i saw him) but cannot physicaly proove it? Not sure if anything can save him now, the damage is already done and based on the already passed judgements (Ferrari and Co) they cannot judge any different with LA. IMO its a a good thing for sport, until they introduce 1st offence life time bans nothing else will discourage doping.
goya-goya Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 You seriously like your coffee cold? Pardon my utter ignorance to your chirp... But I have no idea what you mean???
petatodd Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Pardon my utter ignorance to your chirp... But I have no idea what you mean??? You are in such a deep sleep that you think your dreams are true? As observed by the sage a page back: Did he really, you coffee hasn't only gone cold, it's gone stale.
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