Tumbleweed Posted August 24, 2012 Share What...the finger Bwahahahahahahaha! I meant Jens gave Bruyneel a prezzie with a win at the Pro Challenge. I see LA wished Kik a happy birthday too. Wonder how much she knows… Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Zone Posted August 24, 2012 Share This is the way it looks to me: Lance did not want the matter to be heard in open court, why? because he did not want his image tarnished further, and testimony from the likes of Landis, Hamilton and most of all Hincapie would have been devastating. The way that he could walk away saving the most face is to throw in the towel, deny the charges and plead innocence for the rest of his life, even if stripped of his titles he will still be able to maintain his innocence. I hate to say this (I really do) but I cant see this in any other way but the actions of a guilty man. A little bit of my love for Cycling, and the Tour died today. Lance will always remain a legend for what he has done for Cancer Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted August 24, 2012 Share The doping controls almost make it a necessity for ALL professional athletes to dope. The only way you will have a clean sport is if every athlete who turns professional builds up a documented blood profile over the course of their life and has factual, tested and approved reasons for significant changes to this. As human beings we are not all the same. Genetics makes us all unique. Remember a clean sportsmanwoman is someone considered to be staying below the levels and controls prescribed by the doping agencies. It certainly does not mean they are not taking anything. Doping controls try to level the playing field and ironically THEY DO and more importantly they do this at safer levels than completely unrestrained free for all doping scenerios. Think back to the many body builders (Probably the only sport with more drug issues than cycling) who lost their lives doping up on duiretics trying to get uber lean ahead of major contest time and dehydrating to the point of organ failure, let alone the cocktails of roids. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goya-goya Posted August 24, 2012 Share I dont think so Swiss, there was due process open to LA, but he decided not to follow through. In effect he put up the white flag. As I have said, I would do the same, sometimes its not worth your health and mental well being, its an enormous strain mentally and physically to field these kinds of court summonses daily, some can do it and actually thrive on it, some elect not to. I personally dont have a dog in the fight here, I think he was a great athlete, but I also think he had a demon in his back garden, and he was afraid it would get out and the world would see it, either way, that issue will now probably die with him. For me, I think he can now move forward, so should we. How about this for an alternative view: If Lance Lost the arbitration which Sparks said was - in my own words not too stable a case - then he would have a chance to take the appeal process to UCI... and then CAS and then swiss court... eeeish... The real fight here is about who has jurisdiction... and that would have been the final judgement... if Lance can prove that it is UCI then that whole process would have been for naught for tagart... I surmise that Lance has taken the "high road" so that they can fight it out by themselves... IS Tour de France a UCI event? Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capcha Posted August 24, 2012 Share Bwahahahahahahaha! I meant Jens gave Bruyneel a prezzie with a win at the Pro Challenge. I see LA wished Kik a happy birthday too. Wonder how much she knows…No ways serious. Got to look that up. Jens is my free Ken hero. Must check his tweets Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 24, 2012 Share No ways serious. Got to look that up. Jens is my free Ken hero. Must check his tweets His Jensie-isms are classic. He's nuts. In a good way. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted August 24, 2012 Share How about this for an alternative view: If Lance Lost the arbitration which Sparks said was - in my own words not too stable a case - then he would have a chance to take the appeal process to UCI... and then CAS and then swiss court... eeeish... The real fight here is about who has jurisdiction... and that would have been the final judgement... if Lance can prove that it is UCI then that whole process would have been for naught for tagart... I surmise that Lance has taken the "high road" so that they can fight it out by themselves... IS Tour de France a UCI event? I dont know and I dont want to fight about it, but I think, generally, if he and his legal team were confident of winning in arbitration and keeping his dignity and pride they would have done so. Its almost certain his legal advisers told him this is not a case you are guaranteed to win and its going to potentially ruin you in the public eye - walk away, and move forward with your life. To his credit, thats what he did. Of course though, when you raise the flag, you effectively surrender and have to accept the consequences as it applies to you, but I think its worth it to him.? Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goya-goya Posted August 24, 2012 Share I am not fighting with anyone... The USADA thing is not true arbitration... as Tagart will choose the arbitrators... and once they steam roll what they want there is no recovery even if the process after 3 years was determined to be unjust by the final Court!... I ask you guys to read the story... not just the media stuff Lance I think has stepped back for the 2 entities to sort the k@k out first... but hey... I can be wrong! Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 24, 2012 Share Today, I’m disappointed for Lance and for cycling in general that things have reached a stage where Lance feels that he has had enough and is no longer willing to participate in USADA’s campaign against him. Lance has never withdrawn from a fair fight in his life so his decision today underlines what an unjust process this has been. I hope that it will soon be determined that the case that USADA initiated against me should never have gotten as far as it has. Due to the sensitive nature of legal proceedings, I have been advised that it would be inappropriate for me to comment further at this stage. Johan Bruyneel http://www.johanbruy...le/unfair-fight Edited August 24, 2012 by Tumbleweed Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
divernick Posted August 24, 2012 Share He may have his titles stripped, but he'll always be a 7-time winner of le Tour..... Wyatt Earp and bradwentzel 2 Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastapouch Posted August 24, 2012 Share So whos gonna get his titles? Ulrihch had his hands in the doping cookie hjar, Ivan basso has....now what, vINO AS WELL...I see fun on the horizon Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMartin Posted August 24, 2012 Share The problem is LA made a lot of enemies. You can be a good rider and still be popular with other riders. Lance was not. He was a bully and destroyed a number of careers. It does not surprise me that there are people that are keen to take him down. Anyway it is not a big deal. As someone said a bunch of posts back. Enjoy the spectacle. Use the inspiration and go ride your bike. Java001 1 Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted August 24, 2012 Share I am not fighting with anyone... The USADA thing is not true arbitration... as Tagart will choose the arbitrators... and once they steam roll what they want there is no recovery even if the process after 3 years was determined to be unjust by the final Court!... I hear you, but whether we think its right or wrong, is really not relevant, its the law as it stands at this time, hence Taggart and USADA are just following the rules. Theres injustice everywhere mate, not just here. Either way, I stand by my affirmation, he did the right thing by walking away, to many his legacy will stand with or without the trophy on his wall, and thats fine, from a personal point, I dont think he needed the stress anymore. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted August 24, 2012 Share VN: Are you surprised by what happened, that this didn’t go to arbitration? TT:No, I think it was our expectation from the beginning… Read more: http://www.velonatio...x#ixzz24S6DPcCK Edited August 24, 2012 by Tumbleweed Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted August 24, 2012 Share Today, I’m disappointed for Lance and for cycling in general that things have reached a stage where Lance feels that he has had enough and is no longer willing to participate in USADA’s campaign against him. Lance has never withdrawn from a fair fight in his life so his decision today underlines what an unjust process this has been. I hope that it will soon be determined that the case that USADA initiated against me should never have gotten as far as it has. Due to the sensitive nature of legal proceedings, I have been advised that it would be inappropriate for me to comment further at this stage. Johan Bruyneel http://www.johanbruy...le/unfair-fight Yeah, but as I said before, its a due process and it follows the letter of the law, whether JB ( who I detest by the way) or LA or any of us think its wrong, is not relevant, its the law as it stands, and the courts make rulings based on the law. The only way to change the ruling is to change the law, maybe its something LA or even JB will attempt, I doubt it, but thats the only way the outcome will change. Sad, I agree, but true. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted August 24, 2012 Share The problem is LA made a lot of enemies. You can be a good rider and still be popular with other riders. Lance was not. He was a bully and destroyed a number of careers. It does not surprise me that there are people that are keen to take him down. That, no doubt played a big part as well I agree. Lots of people out there in influential positions with an axe to grind. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/50/#findComment-1757783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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