Introducing PowerCal a new kind of Power Meter

[rpedro]

But then again DC Rainmaker does mention "In order for the strap to work however, you must first complete a power test." so now I am back to being confused again :-)

[rpedro]

So if the test shows that my max power is 500 watts then this strap can use that to calc my power at 80% HR for instance? Does that maybe make some kinda sense.

 

So if you then put me side by side with Robbie Hunter then at least the strap will give different readings based on HR.

 

I don't know but just taking a stab at it :-)

[BicyclePower]

But then again DC Rainmaker does mention "In order for the strap to work however, you must first complete a power test." so now I am back to being confused again :-)

 

OK the DC Rainmaker version of PowerCal was an older version that Saris originally said needed calibration, we got 3 of these to test as well but then go told:

1. Why does it no longer have to be calibrated?
   
   1. 
      
   2. After years of research and reevaluation of the algorithm it was determined that the calibration process added no more accuracy than the algorithm alone. Due to the variability of heart rate, both between and among individuals, calibration did not statistically increase accuracy of translated energy expenditure. Some individuals may see improved accuracy through calibration but, as a whole, the results show the algorithm alone is able to translate heart rate to power as well as individual calibration.
      

this was listed on the second page of the thread.

[Wallee]

....As an individual increases his/her fitness and their HR remains lower for a given wattage output, the PowerCal will consistently track/notice and therefore measure the wattage output because it is also the changes in HR increases/decreases that are important, not just the instantaneous HR=wattage relationship”

 

I am keen, but I still don't understand how it knows if you are getting fitter (therefore producing more Watts at a given HR). Does it measure how quickly your HR increases/decreases during exercise compared to previous recorded HR changes during exercise, and use that to gauge increased/decreased fitness?

[BicyclePower]

I am keen, but I still don't understand how it knows if you are getting fitter (therefore producing more Watts at a given HR). Does it measure how quickly your HR increases/decreases during exercise compared to previous recorded HR changes during exercise, and use that to gauge increased/decreased fitness?

 

 

The PowerCals algorithm has included changes in the HR response time, so the fitter you get the more consistent your “Power output” will be. i.e. you won’t have the spikes in power output that would be associated with a first time user so in a way the consistency of your HR will determine performance increases.

[Mellow]

I am keen, but I still don't understand how it knows if you are getting fitter (therefore producing more Watts at a given HR). Does it measure how quickly your HR increases/decreases during exercise compared to previous recorded HR changes during exercise, and use that to gauge increased/decreased fitness?

 

This is the point where I get skeptical, but then again, there are years spent by educated people to monitor the heart rate (reaction periods, beat patterns I assume) response to your historical and current physical state. If you look how Polar with the 'own optimizer' and 'fitness tests' calculate some measure of fitness and fatigue.

 

I will also sit back a while and read a review or two.

[BicyclePower]

This is the point where I get skeptical, but then again, there are years spent by educated people to monitor the heart rate (reaction periods, beat patterns I assume) response to your historical and current physical state. If you look how Polar with the 'own optimizer' and 'fitness tests' calculate some measure of fitness and fatigue.

 

I will also sit back a while and read a review or two.

 

 

 

fair enough however I would like to raise a question on "other HR" based system out on the market that also though the use of an algorithm try workout how much energy you have consumed as a heart rate monitor can NOT measure work done this is where the benefit of Power is so great it telling you exactly how hard you are working thus giving instant feedback to work done.

[The Saint]

Interesting, put me down for one.

[SeaBee]

Also interested - and wondering what the "input" needs to be. If it takes the HR variance to deduct the power, it still has to have at least an accurate HR max...(?) Because obviously an current HR value, take 185 as example: 185 for me is not 185 for somebody else - for one person it's LT for another it's max.

 

But I love the fact that I can have a different HR strap and now read power values on my Edge (if I understand it correctly). Even if it's somewhat off, it will hopefully be consistently off and you can at least track and work on that.

[BicyclePower]

Also interested - and wondering what the "input" needs to be. If it takes the HR variance to deduct the power, it still has to have at least an accurate HR max...(?) Because obviously an current HR value, take 185 as example: 185 for me is not 185 for somebody else - for one person it's LT for another it's max.

 

But I love the fact that I can have a different HR strap and now read power values on my Edge (if I understand it correctly). Even if it's somewhat off, it will hopefully be consistently off and you can at least track and work on that.

 

During short max out efforts i.e. 20sec sprints the system might give a true reading as there is HR lag however if doing like a 20min effort taking the HR gradually up to max you should have a more accurate power reading as the duration of the effort is allot longer.

[LOOK695]

I wonder how it will read and interpriate if your legs are fatiqued and you struggle to get your HR to normal levels? When rested I might push 250w at 80% HR and when fatigued this figure might drop to 220w at the same Hr for example? Do the Joule 1 and Joule GPS give you ave power stats when doing laps? I see that the Joule 2 shows ave power on its screen, but is that for the total time? I want to use ave power for when I am doing intervals and concentrate more on power than HR for the duration of said interval.

 

What training software do you use to download and analize your workout?

Edited June 29, 2012 by LOOK695

[BicyclePower]

I wonder how it will read and interpriate if your legs are fatiqued and you struggle to get your HR to normal levels? When rested I might push 250w at 80% HR and when fatigued this figure might drop to 220w at the same Hr for example? Do the Joule 1 and Joule GPS give you ave power stats when doing laps? I see that the Joule 2 shows ave power on its screen, but is that for the total time? I want to use ave power for when I am doing intervals and concentrate more on power than HR for the duration of said interval.

 

What training software do you use to download and analize your workout?

 

as far as i know both the Joule 1.0 and GPS have a report function that will allow you to view lap averages etc however the Joule GPS is a little most costomisable when it comes to display, we are getting a Joule 1.0 in the next week or so so should be able to provide you with more detail on this.

 

the CycleOps product can be download into Power Agent a FREE program that works very well, i will try upload some screen shots so you can see how it works of it you want you can download it off: http://www.cycleops.com/en/products/software.html

 

Joule 2.0 will show you average for the lap you are doing exactly like the Joule 1.0 and GPS

[LOOK695]

Thanks PowerTap. You have really been helpful in answering our questions. Put my name down for one as well

[BigGuy]

During short max out efforts i.e. 20sec sprints the system might give a true reading as there is HR lag however if doing like a 20min effort taking the HR gradually up to max you should have a more accurate power reading as the duration of the effort is allot longer.

This would be interesting to measure.

 

I have a hill that I repeat 10 times in exactly the same gear, at exactly the same cadence (70 bpm music beat). Theoretically I should be using the same power output more or less.

It takes exactly 15 minutes to complete the hill. When I start the temp is about 5deg and when I finish it is about 18deg.

My heart rate goes as follows

Run# Start End

1 99 134

2 124 138

3 126 141

4 128 146

5 133 148

6 132 151

7 130 152

8 131 154

9 132 155

10 131 154

It would be interesting to see the diff in calculated power between run 1 and 10.

[Pieterg]

Any news

[Eagle_i]

PowerTap, Good support for the product and questions very well answered. Should work with my Garmin Edge 800. Will do for my needs. Put my name on the list as well for a "PowerCal".