Rudi Pollard Posted September 12, 2012 Author Posted September 12, 2012 These are the official T&Cs. Pretty crystal clear IMHO... I am aware of this yes, and it is exactly what he sent me. After discussion he agreed that if I pay the balance of the course fee before the end of the week, I can attend the course, which I did. The course I wanted to attend was then cancelled by JB. The T&C's does not state anything about when he cancels does it? I know he accommodated me and tried to find a solution. We eventually ended up where nothing this year could work for either of us.
'Dale Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 I went for a training ride.Considered all the options to resolve this dispute. Here it is - the verdict: I think JB must return 50% of Lapa's deposit. Ag, just thinking that a little 'exception' can build alliance with 'lapa, the potential customer. Then again, this is not my business (in more ways than one).
fabes Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 you'll have to take the knob out your mouth first. I dont find it offensive, Just annoying.Why so seriaaaas?
mikeMT Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Trying to stay diplomatic and correct here, there's no such thing as a no-refund deposit, not according to the Consumer Protection Act. That's not to say there aren't situations in which a service provider isn't entitled to withhold an entire deposit - if someone cancels a few days before the event, for example, but the point is they cant have a blanket policy of not refunding any portion of any deposit they receive, ever. No one plans a function and pays a deposit for a service with the intention of cancelling it, but these things happen, i would suggest that if your deposit invoice does not stipulate the exact terms and conditions pertaining to the withholding of deposits etc, then yes you can demand a full refund, regardless of time changes etc.
StevieL Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I am aware of this yes, and it is exactly what he sent me. After discussion he agreed that if I pay the balance of the course fee before the end of the week, I can attend the course, which I did. The course I wanted to attend was then cancelled by JB. The T&C's does not state anything about when he cancels does it? I know he accommodated me and tried to find a solution. We eventually ended up where nothing this year could work for either of us. OK, granted, he was the one who cancelled on you, but, to be fair, he did try and accomodate you into another course. Also bear in mind that you postponed/cancelled on him 3 times previously.The fact that you are not available for a weekend for the rest of the year isn't really his problem... Edited September 12, 2012 by StevieL
covie Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 So the story goes like this: I contacted Johan Bornman for the first time in May 2012 to book myself onto the Yellow Saddle Repair and Maintenance course. The first date I had available was for August so I went ahead and paid my deposit of R500. My wife then informed me that we have to attend a wedding over that weekend so I contacted Johan to move it to the October course, which he did. I am entered to do the Isuzu Three Towers Stage race in October and I really wanted to do the course before the race. I sent Johan an email enquiring whether there was any space available on a course before the race, and we could not find a suitable date. I kept in touch with Johan in order to try to find a date before October. Johan sent me an email on the 27th of June that a spot has opened up for the course over the weekend of the 7th/8th of July and I took the spot. 2 days later however I had a financial setback as my wife had an ITB injury and she had to go for physiotherapy. I contacted Johan and told him that I will not be able to attend as I cannot afford the course at that moment in time and asked for him to refund my R500 deposit I paid. This is where things got interesting Johan did not reply to me until the 21st of August. In that time I sent him 3 or 4 emails asking him if he will refund me or if I can use it on a future course without any reply. The reply I eventually got contained the terms and conditions from his website basically saying that he does not refund deposits. He did however compromise and said that I can use my deposit for one of the September courses if I paid the balance before the end of the week. We discussed the possible dates, and eventually I had to sell my entry for the Nissan Trail Seeker Down and Dirty MTB race on the weekend of 1 and 2 September in order to attend the course as no other weekend for the rest of the year suited us both. I went ahead and paid the balance of R2380 in order to book my spot. I received a call from his wife(I think) at 6h50AM on the Saturday morning stating that Johan is really sick and will not be able to present the course anymore. Since I had to drive all the way from Centurion everything was packed and I was ready to go. She stated that Johan will phone me somewhere during the day to discuss possible alternatives. This call never came. I eventually tried to call him, but he did not answer. Eventually I sent an email to the other guys that were supposed to attend the course, asking them if they know anything, and at about 12PM on the Saturday evening one of them replied saying that he got hold of Johan and that we need discuss between ourselves when we want to attend the course. I contacted Johan directly and told him that the rest of my weekends for the year is unavailable and requested a refund. I have at that point in time paid him R2880 in total and I would much rather have that money in my bank account than somebody else’s. Johan simply replied that he does not want to refund me, stating that he has had to reply to dozens of emails and accommodate me for one no-show. That was not the case, as I still have all my email history where I notified him that I will not be able to attend the first course in July anymore. He also stated that this was the first time in his career that he had to cancel a course. Frankly that meant nothing to me. Since he cancelled on me I was looking for a refund. I stated this much to him, and he replied that he will refund me my money but he is keeping my R500 deposit. This I find ridiculous as he did not provide me with any service in the end. He cancelled the course and since we could not find an appropriate date for both of us to reschedule the course, I am under the impression that he has to refund me my total R2880. On Friday morning of last week I received R2330 into my bank account from Johan, and thus he has decided to keep R550 for providing no service to me whatsoever. I do not think this is right!!! If you take money from someone, giving the impression that you will provide them with a service for that money, and then provide nothing in return, you are in effect just stealing that person’s money!!! I have tried to contact him again but he is just ignoring me at the moment. I feel that I have followed all the correct procedures in order to get my refund from Johan, but he clearly feels that he can just do as he pleases!!! He cancelled the course but he clearly does not have any cancelation policy for this in place. According to the CPA he has to provide me with a full refund, since he did not provide the service that was paid for!!! Just thought I would warn everyone before they part with their hard earned money for this course…i read the first 3 paragraphs and its clear he made concessions and you were messing him around, no need to read the rest of the drab. slowpoke 1
Lamber Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) you'll have to take the knob out your mouth first. I dont find it offensive, Just annoying. Your insecurities will eat you aliiiiiiiive! PS Knobs are for doors, you might be doing it wrong! Edited September 12, 2012 by Lamber fabes, Andro and Escapee.. 3
Lamber Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Why so seriaaaas? Well, you know, once every month...
Caerus Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Trying to stay diplomatic and correct here, there's no such thing as a no-refund deposit, not according to the Consumer Protection Act. That's not to say there aren't situations in which a service provider isn't entitled to withhold an entire deposit - if someone cancels a few days before the event, for example, but the point is they cant have a blanket policy of not refunding any portion of any deposit they receive, ever. No one plans a function and pays a deposit for a service with the intention of cancelling it, but these things happen, i would suggest that if your deposit invoice does not stipulate the exact terms and conditions pertaining to the withholding of deposits etc, then yes you can demand a full refund, regardless of time changes etc. Mmmm, interesting.
nishiki Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Trying to stay diplomatic and correct here, there's no such thing as a no-refund deposit, not according to the Consumer Protection Act. That's not to say there aren't situations in which a service provider isn't entitled to withhold an entire deposit - if someone cancels a few days before the event, for example, but the point is they cant have a blanket policy of not refunding any portion of any deposit they receive, ever. No one plans a function and pays a deposit for a service with the intention of cancelling it, but these things happen, i would suggest that if your deposit invoice does not stipulate the exact terms and conditions pertaining to the withholding of deposits etc, then yes you can demand a full refund, regardless of time changes etc.CPA isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Try enforcing any of their rules some time. JB's terms were straight forward, and the OP agreed to this. In fact, from looking at the terms, JB was being very accommodating with Mr.Busy-pants. slowpoke 1
Andro Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 i read the first 3 paragraphs and its clear he made concessions and you were messing him around, no need to read the rest of the drab. Sort of received the same feeling... Think leave it as is.
mikeMT Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 CPA isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Try enforcing any of their rules some time. JB's terms were straight forward, and the OP agreed to this. In fact, from looking at the terms, JB was being very accommodating with Mr.Busy-pants. Perhaps you do not know how to enforce it....????? JB runs a service orientated business, and with any business there are risks involved, risks work both way, the changing of dates of a scholar regardless of the amount of times is irrelevant. The fact that he had no one else to fulfill his position on the mutally agreed day due to illness is not the scholars fault, and therefore i believe that the OP has every right to demand a full refund considering his busy schedule and the two parties cannot mutually agree on another set time period within the year. Ramrod 1
Caerus Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 CPA isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Try enforcing any of their rules some time. JB's terms were straight forward, and the OP agreed to this. In fact, from looking at the terms, JB was being very accommodating with Mr.Busy-pants. So, according to the CPA, which is the law(correct me if I'm wrong)? he should be entitled to a refund? So you can make up any terms & conditions even though the CPA says you're incorrect.
ShowDem Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 I did suggest to JB that I will attend next year when the schedule becomes available. My point to him regarding the refund was that I can use the R2880 much better over the next 4-6 months than for it to be in someone elses bank account. This is about the time he started ignoring me. I would have also ignored you.....you seem like the kinda guy that really get on someones nerves. TheV 1
mikeMT Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Guys, i think too many posting here are emotionally attached to certain players, remove the emotion, put yourself in either ones predicament, think about it for a moment and then decide,. Ramrod, Andro and DIPSLICK 3
ShowDem Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 OK, granted, he was the one who cancelled on you, but, to be fair, he did try and accomodate you into another course. Also bear in mind that you postponed/cancelled on him 3 times previously.The fact that you are not available for a weekend for the rest of the year isn't really his problem... How is this guy really not available for a weekend for the rest of the year, surely he cant have that many friends.
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