Hairy Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I use the work stickered to be disrespectful on purpose, thanks. I know what decals are. Funny how people would for instance see a Volcan as a quality product.... but diss blank Chinese frames. Notice how similar they are? Guess what. http://www.volcanbikes.com/images/bikes/2012_29er/2012_29er_2.jpg "The sad thing is these days as technology has plateaued more often than not the tools and new production processes are not really adding any value. New gimmicks are developed mainly for marketing purposes. Distinguishing the brand from competition is the only reason for coming up with the new three or four letter acronyms." http://inrng.com/2012/02/who-made-your-bike/ Either way, I have no need to justify my purchase further. I'm loving my bike, it works and was a steal. Stop bitching ... where is a pic of your built bike already!!!!!
Hairy Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 You take the opinions of luddites on MTBR as the basis for determining the quality of a Chinese blank frame - seriously? Have you ever heard of post purchase rationalisation? That's pretty much sums up about 95% of what you read on MTBR. Like I said enjoy your choice of bike and the R3400 you saved instead of buying a Giant XTC Composite frame with a lifetime warranty and a proper racing R&D and racing pedigree for R7500. But please stop insulting those of us who make different choices to you - we're not wrong and you're not right either. Is it seriously only R7500.00 for a Giant Carbon HT? If so then that is a fair deal.
Azonic Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 You take the opinions of luddites on MTBR as the basis for determining the quality of a Chinese blank frame - seriously? Have you ever heard of post purchase rationalisation? That's pretty much sums up about 95% of what you read on MTBR. Like I said enjoy your choice of bike and the R3400 you saved instead of buying a Giant XTC Composite frame with a lifetime warranty and a proper racing R&D and racing pedigree for R7500. But please stop insulting those of us who make different choices to you - we're not wrong and you're not right either. Hahaha, your post can be summed up on one word. "Butthurt". Look it up. You enjoy your bike, I'm enjoying mine and the spare cash I still got
Edge_Design Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 There are good blank frames out there, but you can not really compare them to the bigger brands out there - let's be honest, they really aren't the exact same frames minus some stickers. Those companies spend a lot of money designing frames, ensuring exclusivity on their moulds and ensuring the carbon used and moulding process is the best available. GWM launched their bakkies based very closely on Toyota and some other major brands - do you believe that they use exactly the same quality materials and quality control as Toyota even though they may look the same? I ride a Taiwanese frame myself and love it, but I would not dream of trying to pretend I am riding a Specialized/Trek/Giant/Pinarello in disguise. Brian Fantana 1
Azonic Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 I ride a Taiwanese frame myself and love it, but I would not dream of trying to pretend I am riding a Specialized/Trek/Giant/Pinarello in disguise. Probably not, but they are close enough that I won't be losing sleep. I know most Chinese frames use T700 carbon where some other "name brand" frames use T800, which is why the blanks are +/- 50g heavier for any given size because of the "older" tech carbon. I'm still of the opinion that the strength is very close if not exact.
Zook Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) There are good blank frames out there, but you can not really compare them to the bigger brands out there - let's be honest, they really aren't the exact same frames minus some stickers. Those companies spend a lot of money designing frames, ensuring exclusivity on their moulds and ensuring the carbon used and moulding process is the best available. Not an expert on the frames issue at all, but I've done a fair amount of reading on the China manufacturing issue. I think it is possible to get an item that is pretty much equivalent (if not exactly the same as) a branded product, because the manufacturing culture is so aimed at just copying. Sometimes items will come out of the same factory, especially once the product is a year or two old and they still have the resources to put out a few 100k extra items. Very hard to police that. Manufacturers will often give their industrial customers a great price to manufacture something that has a new design, specifically because they want to copy it. They don't have the design skills yet, so they value designs sourced from outside. However, the issue is that we can hardly tell which type of knockoff we're getting. Could be a weak frame that'll kill you on a dropoff. Even if it is a direct copy, we're essentially helping the Chinese steal from their customers. So, hard to know what is right. I can understand a young kid who just doesn't have the money and doesn't want to pay the intermediaries. For those who can afford it, nice to support the LBS and design team who own the IP. This book is great:http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470405589 Edited October 30, 2012 by Zook Brian Fantana 1
udxcob Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) How is it that some Chinese companies can blatantly advertise and sell Pinarello's frames, are they the real deal or knockoffs? Edited October 30, 2012 by udxcob
Azonic Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 How is it that some Chinese companies can blatantly advertise and sell Pinarello's frames, are they the real deal or knockoffs? Knockoffs. The "real" Pinarellos are made in the building down the street.
'Dale Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Nice debate of sorts. I love specific brands and will happily pay for the brand. It does bring peace of mind and 'cover my azz' small print.
geecee Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Huizhou City Jiyan Precision Metal Parts Factory located in Guangdong of China, specializes in developing, manufacturing and selling wide range of carbon fiber bicycle parts hmmmm
Azonic Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Huizhou City Jiyan Precision Metal Parts Factory located in Guangdong of China, specializes in developing, manufacturing and selling wide range of carbon fiber bicycle parts hmmmm Yep, got my frame from them. Couldn't be happier.
Azonic Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Sourced this from the same factory for a mate. Dogma clone I believe. Its super nice - being built up right now.
Witkop Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/ The thing with Chinese goods is Quality Control. The branded bikes essentially claim to have met the high standards set by the brand, and the brand is willing to provide a warrantee to back that up. An unbranded bike is not advertising any standard. The point of the article is that part of the promise of a brand is that the frame will break safely when it breaks. The brand stakes its reputation on that. However as was pointed out VOLCAN as a brand did not represent such a standard, but rather was a marketing ploy to sell bikes. so even with branded bikes, chose your brand carefully. As I am financially challenged I will shop around for the best deals, and unbranded will also be considered.
Witkop Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.bustedcarbon.com/ just to remind ya all that steel is the real material to build a bike........
Mojoman Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 http://www.bustedcarbon.com/ just to remind ya all that steel is the real material to build a bike........Suprised to see so many road bikes broken! I would not like to take my chances on a carbon mountain bike then, the stresses must be huge!
sometime Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Is it seriously only R7500.00 for a Giant Carbon HT? If so then that is a fair deal. Yes
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