LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[DaleE]

One other thought ....

 

This carb craving / carb flu relapse thing is one of the reasons I don't like the "have a day when you eat any cr@p you like" suggestion. The idea of starting from scratch every Monday cause I had a carb filled sunday is just too depressing for words. I prefer to think of it like this:

There are 14-21 meals per week. If I have a slightly higher carb intake for 10% (i.e. 2 meals) then my body seems happy with that. by slightly I mean some sushi with rice or mashed potatoes with meat. NOT pies, chocolates, etc

 

As always, YMMV, but that's what works for me.

[davetapson]

One other thought ....

 

This carb craving / carb flu relapse thing is one of the reasons I don't like the "have a day when you eat any cr@p you like" suggestion. The idea of starting from scratch every Monday cause I had a carb filled sunday is just too depressing for words. I prefer to think of it like this:

There are 14-21 meals per week. If I have a slightly higher carb intake for 10% (i.e. 2 meals) then my body seems happy with that. by slightly I mean some sushi with rice or mashed potatoes with meat. NOT pies, chocolates, etc

 

As always, YMMV, but that's what works for me.

 

Yep, I have to agree with you. Friel's comment is 'you are going to eat carbs sometime. But when? And what?'

 

The implication that rather conciously eat carbs than unconciously go into a feeding frenzy. I LOVE toast and marmalade with eggs and bacon, and seriously find a Sunday fry up deficient without.

 

What I'm starting to do is say ok, I'll have the toast with marmalade on Sundays, a. because I like it, b. it stops me feeling hard done by by not having it, and then going full frenzy at some later time.

 

So, maybe it's a micro-dgw strategy rather than the gross strategy as suggested by TF. The other thing being that if you trying to remain ketotic, or borderline ketotic, then you are going to be solidly booted out of ketosis by a day of excessive CHO consumption.

 

However, he does say in the article that the diet is an alternative to CKD (Cyclical Ketosis Diet), so one has to read it with that in mind.

[DaleE]

The leanings:

1.) I had sushi the night before and no real carbs for breakfast so i was low on carbs before i did the ride. Not a good idea.

 

Ok, I'm going to beg to differ with you here ....

Being "low on carbs" is only an issue if your'e burning carbs as your primary fuel source OR if you're going to be doing some very high intensity exercise (2-3hrs of hard racing).

 

Remember that one of the aims/ideas of LCHF is that you are teaching your body to burn FAT not carbs, as it's primary fuel source. So being low on carbs is not an issue.

 

Also remember that if you are new to LCHF, this fat-adaption takes 2-3 weeks for most folk but 2-3 MONTHS before you will see athletic performance come back to pre-LCHF levels. So, don't be stressed if you have just started this and are feeling fine during the day, but slow and low energy and little power on the bike ... that's normal. During this period, concentrate on low-power low-hr slow burn rides ... no hill sprints!

Again it's worth noting that you have changed your body's fuel source so there is a period of adaptation.

This is of course why there are many stories of cyclists who start LCHF as a New Year's resolution, but fall off the band-wagon in Feb because they cant sustain their Argus training load.

[DaleE]

The implication that rather conciously eat carbs than unconciously go into a feeding frenzy. I LOVE toast and marmalade with eggs and bacon, and seriously find a Sunday fry up deficient without.

 

So, maybe it's a micro-dgw strategy rather than the gross strategy as suggested by TF. The other thing being that if you trying to remain ketotic, or borderline ketotic, then you are going to be solidly booted out of ketosis by a day of excessive CHO consumption.

 

Hi Dave,

If you're worried about staying in ketosis, just go for a long ride before you have that toast ... that way your ketones are so high pre-toast that they will still be within range post-toast

 

I experimented with beer and it's effects on BG and ketone levels after exercise. effect is dramatically less then without exercise .. and beer always seems to taste better on a hot day after 3hrs on a bike !!

Edited October 7, 2013 by DaleE

[davetapson]

Hi Dave,

If you're worried about staying in ketosis, just go for a long ride before you have that toast ... that way your ketones are so high pre-toast that they will still be within range post-toast

 

I experimented with beer and it's effects on BG and ketone levels after exercise. effect is dramatically less then without exercise .. and beer always seems to taste better on a hot day after 3hrs on a bike !!

 

That's about the best news I heard since... hmmm, dunno when.

 

Although it makes sense anyway, as you are ingesting your carbs in the post exercise window where your glut4's are still active.

 

TF has a whole regime he follows if he knows he is going to be in a HC environment. The one thing is to do 40 'air-squats' (i.e. squats without weights) just before eating which triggers the GLUT4 translocation - hence he then does not get (or gets reduced) insulin spikes as a result of the carb load.

 

If I did 40 air squats per beer, I reckon I'd have legs like Robert Forsterman in no time.

[Leon Besaans]

One other thought ....

 

This carb craving / carb flu relapse thing is one of the reasons I don't like the "have a day when you eat any cr@p you like" suggestion. The idea of starting from scratch every Monday cause I had a carb filled sunday is just too depressing for words. I prefer to think of it like this:

There are 14-21 meals per week. If I have a slightly higher carb intake for 10% (i.e. 2 meals) then my body seems happy with that. by slightly I mean some sushi with rice or mashed potatoes with meat. NOT pies, chocolates, etc

 

As always, YMMV, but that's what works for me.

 

I had a serious craving for cheesecake for a while now and on Friday nite I had a fat slice.... Man oh man, was that a mistake... I felt so **** that I did not even bother getting on my bike on Saturday.

 

The cheat is not worth it.

 

Regards

[HappyMartin]

I have the opposite of carb flu today. Did a 107 km race on Sunday. Not fit so my time was a disapointing 03:10. One water bottle of energy drink and 2 gels got me through. HR as high as 194 on several occasions. Real desperate stuff.

 

Once off the bike I nailed the sugars. Had about a liter of coke, another energy drink and a piece of cake. Today I feel hungover. The thought of sugars turns my stomach.

 

I'm not low carb but cannot understand how people consume the sugars they do. I just feel grim after.

[Cuppa Bru]

I had a serious craving for cheesecake for a while now and on Friday nite I had a fat slice.... Man oh man, was that a mistake... I felt so **** that I did not even bother getting on my bike on Saturday.

 

The cheat is not worth it.

 

Regards

 

It's a pain how almost all mainstream treats are full of carbs, but there is no reason to be deprived as we can make our own LCHF-friendly treats.

 

Google your craving and prefix it with LCHF and as time goes on you'll find more and more recipes to try.

Making your own is rewarding and often tastier.

 

http://myjourneywithlchf.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/low-carb-strawberry-cheesecake/

http://www.pinterest.com/nurseu2befit/keto-lchf-cheesecakes/

 

Can't be the sour goodness of gooseberries in gelatine over cream cheese!

[htone]

So I am not sure if this is the correct place but here goes. Here are some questions and seeking advice.

 

I changed my whole eating pattern based on this thread and removed carbs from my diet. No pasta or potatoes any more, and wife has done the same. I am not religious about it but will not eat carbs if I can avoid it

 

I had a bad day on Saturday - i had changed my drinks mix from normal 32GI to Energade. on Saturday after my normal 40kms around N Farm and a drink of Glutamine and also Rehidrate, at about 11 am I had a massive sugar dip and was craving carbs as well as anything to fill the hole.

 

I ate sugar and was scarfing pies just to fill the gap.

 

That afternoon i was very lethargic and lacked energy.

 

Sunday i was really lethargic. No energy, legs leaden, so i didn't ride. Actually was exhausted. I had the idea that my glycogen stores were totally depleted. I had one glass of wine on Sunday afternoon and felt completely trashed and sleepy.

 

I am now perplexed and actually worried I may be borderline diabetic but have been tested that I am not. So what can be the problem here?

 

The leanings:

 

1.) I had sushi the night before and no real carbs for breakfast so i was low on carbs before i did the ride. Not a good idea.

2.) 32 GI seems to be a greater drink that I had imagined.

3.) Can the glycogen depletion resulting from a sugar bonk result in ongoing lethargy and a feeling of no energy for up to 48 hours, including muscle soreness?

 

I am perplexed and disappointed in the fact that I am pretty unfit and trying to get back in to shape but am struggling.

 

And I am tossing Energade as a drink....

 

I can confidently tell you that I put myself into Type 2 diabetes through (over)consumption of Energade. I used to drink the stuff at a rate of about 1 litre of concentrate per day, telling myself that it was good for me because this is what sports people drink. Honestly, you'll probably do better drinking neat table sugar.

 

The short answer to the lethargy is a resounding YES - Energade will do that to you if you have been low-carbing for a while, but you need to provide a little more context to fully answer that. How long have you been avoiding carbs for and have you been quite strict at doing that ?

[htone]

And as for everyone who beats themselves up for 'falling off the wagon', he reckons don't stress. Just start. Or just start again. Just start with breakfast. When you can get breakfasts sorted out, start with lunch as well. But just start.

 

Love it, thanks Dave !

[htone]

One other thought ....

 

This carb craving / carb flu relapse thing is one of the reasons I don't like the "have a day when you eat any cr@p you like" suggestion. The idea of starting from scratch every Monday cause I had a carb filled sunday is just too depressing for words. I prefer to think of it like this:

There are 14-21 meals per week. If I have a slightly higher carb intake for 10% (i.e. 2 meals) then my body seems happy with that. by slightly I mean some sushi with rice or mashed potatoes with meat. NOT pies, chocolates, etc

 

As always, YMMV, but that's what works for me.

 

With you on this one Dale. I can get away with one or two potatoes added to a large stew or a small amount of rice if circumstances dictate it, but I also cannot do the pig-out thing.

 

Also having re-read IQ of 2's post it is clear that it wasn't just the Energade, but also the pies, etc that followed. So a typical carb craving reaction.

 

People, you need to remember that sugar is as addictive as cocaine and tobacco. And when you quit carbs you body starts doing strange things to convince you to consume carbs. One of the things it does is called "Junky-thinking" or Junky-behaviour" - that point where you start convincing yourself that you will only have one small helping of carbs/bread/sugar and that will be it. You will control it again after that. Or where you convince yourself that you have been "good" for long enough and that you need to reward yourself. Trust me. Been there, done that !

[Karl Beaton]

hi guys, i am doing a stage race and would like to know how you keep up the diet while at these events. what do you take with you to supplement the high fat ... protein bars are loaded with carbs as well.

 

thx

[davetapson]

hi guys, i am doing a stage race and would like to know how you keep up the diet while at these events. what do you take with you to supplement the high fat ... protein bars are loaded with carbs as well.

 

thx

 

It's difficult. I don't take anything, but I try and stick to meat / eggs / salad and find butter and add great lumps of that to everything.

 

In theory you could take a bottle of olive oil along and slather that over everything.

[htone]

Some "accidental learnings" based on BG measurements over the weekend. Note, the penny only dropped well afterwards, but I think there is enough value in this to share it here.

 

I am on just about a no-carb diet, therefore my BG tests in the 4 - 5 range most of the time. My ketones are almost always in +++ on the sticks (I have run out of keto strips for my meter and just haven't bothered).

 

On Saturday before my ride, I tested my ketones and it was at +. My BG was at 6.5. I dismissed it as a spurious reading as it normalised later in the day.

 

On Sunday before my ride, my ketones where trace and my BG was 7.3 and then the alarm bells started ringing. I went for a 1h30 MTB and when I came back my BG was 5.1 and my Ketones deep purple at +++. Because I could not connect the dots, I started reverse-engineering everything I ate over the weekend, but could not find a culprit. Then I started analysing what else I consumed and the penny dropped...

 

I injured my back by incorrectly lifting a bag of dog food out of my car last week and over the last few nights I actually woke up in so much pain that I drank two pain killers during the night. The only stuff I had in the house was adco-dol which is a particularly nasty mixture of paracetamol and codeine phosphate. In both instances of high BG readings, I drank these at about 4am in the morning - about 2 hours before testing.

 

After an anti-inflammatory and massage last night, I had no need for pain killers during the night last night and lo and behold, my BG is down to 4.6 and ketones are back at +++.

 

The only conclusion I was left with is that (specifically) the paracetamol taxed my liver to the point where it actually affected my BG and ketone production ! I then Googled paracetamol and voila - the biggest cause of liver failure admittances to hospitals world-wide is not as one would suspect alcohol, but in fact paracetamol !

 

Granted, I am probably a lot more sensitive to ANYTHING that could affect my BG than most people, but this has been a real eye-opener. And if you are a regular painkiller taker and you are not losing weight, my suggestion as part of trying to break your weight loss plateau will be to also stop taking ANY medication that could potentially tax your liver. The penny dropped for me as I remember a year or so again I was on a heavy dose of antibiotics which I actually stopped taking when it eventually spiked my BG through 8 !

 

Use it, don't use it.

[Nancy Drew]

Inspired by a Tim Noakes interview and my frustration with trying to lose excess fat and constant yo-yo dieting, I've decided to give LCHF a bash; with some trepidation due to years of 'healthy diet' indoctrination

 

Anyway, I went cold turkey on Carbs and sugar. I'm only on day 4 but not quite as enthusiastic as some of you here because I'm just 'foggy' and tired. I hope this feeling goes away.

 

Also, I haven't read all 110 pages of this thread, but I am getting bored with eating the same meals over and over... so hopefully I can find some inspiration and variety here

 

oh, only down 1kg.. I'm putting that down to water loss

[davetapson]

Inspired by a Tim Noakes interview and my frustration with trying to lose excess fat and constant yo-yo dieting, I've decided to give LCHF a bash; with some trepidation due to years of 'healthy diet' indoctrination

 

Anyway, I went cold turkey on Carbs and sugar. I'm only on day 4 but not quite as enthusiastic as some of you here because I'm just 'foggy' and tired. I hope this feeling goes away.

 

Also, I haven't read all 110 pages of this thread, but I am getting bored with eating the same meals over and over... so hopefully I can find some inspiration and variety here

 

oh, only down 1kg.. I'm putting that down to water loss

 

Welcome to the asylum...

 

Yeh - the first week or two are quite hard - your body is making some quite serious changes and you're going to be feeling less than 100% until they get done. You're no longer using carbs as fuel, but it takes a little time for the biological process to adapt to using fat.

 

Just make sure that you are taking sufficient fat - it's a real mind bender at first due to the 'anti-fat' indoctrination we have been subject to. Easiest and most available are olive oil and butter.

 

But also don't over do it - give yourself time to start producing all the necessary to break down fat.

 

If you're feeling nauseous, you're probably over doing the fat. If you are lethargic and tired, probably under doing it.

 

And you may need to up your salt intake - the one thing with LCHF is you start excreting salt so you need to make sure you are replacing it. Lethargy and headaches are a sure sign of lack of salt.

 

AS for meal options, I've just got this - it provides some different options: http://bookslive.co....n/9781432301248

 

You'll feel yuck for a while, just keep at it...