LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Helpmytrap]

Collected my ketostix this morning, I was really hoping for a higher level of ketones but I suppose trace amounts is a good start after 5 weeks.

[htone]

Collected my ketostix this morning, I was really hoping for a higher level of ketones but I suppose trace amounts is a good start after 5 weeks.

 

Cool - now the self-experimentation will start to get some meaning. You should be able to determine exactly what level of carb consumption is causing you to slip out of ketosis.

 

BTW, the 5 weeks have nothing to do with it, you can go into ketosis within a day - just restrict your carbs right down and keep consuming MCT Oil (like coconut) and you should read deep purple within a day. Make sure you test at around about the same time every day - I usually checked my ketone levels just after waking and then just before dinner, sometimes just after a long, hard ride as well.

 

Good luck and keep us posted !

[Cuppa Bru]

Collected my ketostix this morning, I was really hoping for a higher level of ketones but I suppose trace amounts is a good start after 5 weeks.

 

I also gave up on my ketone dip stick readings after never showing more than traces.

Might be that the dip stick readings aren't reflecting your blood ketone levels (there are 3 types, one of which is only a pseudo-ketone).

Don't let the low dip stick readings get to you if you feel strong and not experiencing energy dips during the day despite missing meals, etc.

 

Other indicators of being keto-adapted are acetone-breath and pungent urine

Good luck.

Edited July 29, 2013 by schweinehund

[Wet Ears]

The CrossFit I attend has arranged a talk by Prof Noakes on this exact topic!

[HappyMartin]

And a deep and brief article on protein from Arnie's website (this is only part 1):

 

http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/the-protein-bible-part-1-introduction

 

A real nugget for me this link. So many things clicked into place.

 

By the way I love the coconut oil. I only use about a tablespoon a day but have cut back on the butter.

[Helpmytrap]

I take it that the ketones in one's urine greatly depends on the amount of water you drink? Drink a lot = pee a lot = low concentration? If this is the case I would imagine that the reading you get on the ketostix will vary greatly then on the amount of water you drink. But I would take a guess that if you check when you wake up, you'll get consistent or rather more reliable readings as you most likely would not have had anything to drink for roughly 6 hours.

Reason for asking is because that first test showed trace amounts while a second test (didn't eat in between but taking digestion into account) was pink, ie a "+" reading. So in the space of 3 hours it increased "quite" a bit. As a side note, I remember reading this "Many people seem to stop leaking ketones through urine in the longer term" from http://www.dietdoctor.com/four-weeks-of-strict-lchf-and-ketone-monitoring

 

The one concern that I have is calcium deficiency, I understand that milk isn't the best source but while I'm still doing strict LC; I can't exactly pig out on dark leafy greens... Do you guys supplement it?

[HappyMartin]

Dark leafy greens have very little carbs as far as I know. You would need to eat a bakkie load of spinach before you had a problem.

[htone]

The ketones that end up in your urine are basically "wasted" ketones, i.e. not used by the body for fuel. IIRC ketones only have a lifespan of about 2 minutes in the body and then get excreted either via your breath (keto-breath) or via your urine. So the higher the concentration in your urine, the more your body had to waste - if that makes sense ? Drinking a lot of water may have an effect on that, but I have not experienced that.

 

My ketone measurements on the sticks have always roughly tracked my blood ketones - and the keto stix are always "pessimistic" - so I have had trace on the stix and way more than trace on the blood ketone meter, but never the other way around. It appears that the body does give preference to ketones as fuel once you are fully adapted, hence the fact that when (in my case) the keto stix read deep purple, I am usually in the +1.5 mmol range on the blood test as well (i.e. ketones that are circulating in my blood stream as fuel source).

 

Agree with Martin on the dark green leafies - you probably cannot physically eat enough of that to get you out of ketosis.

[Helpmytrap]

True, but I seem to be getting no more than 40-45% of RDA. Yes they are guidelines but I'm still left wondering...

 

Interesting findings, good sources include sardines, salmon and trout. But other than those, the best bet seems to be spinach/kale and broccoli.

 

PS: (All per 100g)

Spinach 3.6g carbs/2,2g fibre/0.4g sugar - 9%

Broccoli 7.0g carbs/2.6g fibre/1.7g sugar - 4%

Cabbage 6.0g carbs/2.5g fibre/3.2g sugar - 4%

 

More info - http://www.healthali...-in-calcium.php

 

"Although spinach has a lot of good stuff going for it, it’s not a great source of calcium.

Not all food-based calcium is well-absorbed. Spinach, for example, contains quite a bit of calcium but it also contains a lot of oxalates. These natural compounds bind with calcium and make it very difficult for your body to get at it. Although spinach has a lot of good stuff going for it, it’s not a great source of calcium. In fact, because the oxalates in spinach can bind to the calcium in other foods as well, it can even keep you from getting as much calcium from the foods that you eat with it. Unless you never eat calcium-rich foods except with spinach, this is not a big deal—just something to keep in mind." - http://www.quickandd...alcium?page=all

Edited July 29, 2013 by Helpmytrap

[tombeej]

I find that more and more I'm heading away from most forms of plant oil and towards almost completely saturated animal fat. The more I read and research the subject, the more I realise this is my path.

 

So I've been punting my very fatty homemade biltong for a little while now. Well, not to be too controversial, but my own personal conviction is becoming more certain that if you want to be serious about true Paleo/LCHF then you need to get yourself a homemade biltong maker.

 

As I've posted before, my biltong is not the same as commercial types: mine is 70 - 90% fat and only relatively small slivers of actual meat included. The lean stuff is given to the lighty and the missus.

 

Mostly I just have a couple of handfuls to snack on (like when out at sea all day on the boat), which easily take me through a few hours of the day. Better than anything I've come across so far in terms of sustained slow-burn energy.

 

In terms of all-day exercise (like hiking in the Berg), my food of choice is v.fatty biltong mixed with coconut oil. Incredible stuff. My search is over, and I'm happy. A 750ml bottle of this mix will take me through an entire day of climbing/hiking.

 

I was re-reading the old pdf that htone once posted on 'rabbit starvation' - see attached - and I was interested to read this:

 

Normally , according to Stefansson, the diet consisted of dried or cured meat "eaten with fat," namely the highly saturated cavity and back slab fat that could be easily separated from the animal. Another Arctic explorer, Hugh Brody, reports that Eskimos ate raw liver mixed with small pieces of fat and that strips of dried or smoked meat were "spread with fat or lard." Pemmican, a highly concentrated travel food, was a mixture of lean dried buffalo meat and highly saturated buffalo fat. (Buffalo fat, by the way, is more saturated than beef fat.) Less than two pounds of pemmican per day could sustain a man doing hard physical labor. The ratio of fat to protein in pemmican was 80%-20%. As lean meat from game animals was often given to the dogs, there is no reason to suppose that everyday fare did not have the same proportions: 80% fat (mostly highly saturated fat) to 20% protein-in a population in which heart disease and cancer were nonexistent."

 

So if you don't have a homemade biltong maker, best you seriously consider one today .

Rabbit starvation.pdf

[htone]

Sorry HMT, missed your calcium question in my answer. No, I don't supplement calcium, the only mineral I supplement is Magnesium.

 

This could lead to a whole other discussion, but there's a lot of new thinking out there that says on a proper Paleo-style diet (i.e. lots of fresh, real food) you do not need to supplement ANYTHING. I was a big believer in Multi-vitamin supplements but stopped taking them when I started LCHF and I feel better than ever and I have had no ill effects. If you really start looking at the vitamin and mineral content of real fresh produce including meat (sorry Martin), you will soon see that you probably consume well in excess of the RDA.

[htone]

tombeej, if you enjoyed "Rabbit Starvation" then you need to spend a while and read "The Fat of The Land" - Stefansson's original recount of his time spent with Eskimo's and his year in confinement in the Boston Medical Centre to prove that one could live off fat and meat alone - this was the book that inspired Dr Phinney to start looking into LCHF !

 

The link below still works, it will take you straight into the .pdf document, which is about 5.5MB big, and you can then do a "Save as" from the doc. Apart from the humour in reading a really old book that was written before Politically Correct was introduced, this has such a lot of absolutely valuable info that answers many of the questions posted on this forum. Do yourselves a favour and read it !

 

 

http://www.owndoc.com/pdf/The-fat-of-the-land.pdf

[tombeej]

tombeej, if you enjoyed "Rabbit Starvation" then you need to spend a while and read "The Fat of The Land".

 

Ja, I've got it, and read it.

[Helpmytrap]

I'm now making my own homemade biltong. I make it nice and fatty. I've been thinking about a super snack idea where I put fatty biltong through a mincer and mix it with coconut oil into a very thick paste. I'll experiment with how to keep it (like one of those plastic squeezy dispensers). Might potentially be a super paleo all-natural athletic endurance food...

As I've posted before, my biltong is not the same as commercial types: mine is 70 - 90% fat and only relatively small slivers of actual meat included.

 

...my food of choice is v.fatty biltong mixed with coconut oil... A 750ml bottle of this mix..

Pictures please.

 

How does the mix work in a bottle or is it hot enough by you for the coconut oil not to solidify? And what specific coconut oil?

 

What exactly are Kaiings? Is it fat that has been crisped under the oven grill? And do you make it or buy it?

[htone]

Pictures please.

 

How does the mix work in a bottle or is it hot enough by you for the coconut oil not to solidify? And what specific coconut oil?

 

What exactly are Kaiings? Is it fat that has been crisped under the oven grill? And do you make it or buy it?

 

Kaiings are pieces of deep-fried fat. Usually lamb (from the tail) or pork.

To make it you cut the fat into little blocks, about the size of a dice, then you start frying that in a pan.

You keep going until the blocks have shrunk to a more solid form. The lard that you fry off like that is great to use in cooking. The solid bits then get left to cool down and the great thing is because it is 100% saturated fat, it can last outside the fridge for quite a while. And that's kaiings - plain and simple. There are varieties where people then roll the kaiings in crumbs, but for LCHF purposes, that's not the way you want to go !

Unfortunately this takes a bit of time and can be quite messy (and smelly if you live e.g. in a flat or hostel), so buying it is often a more sensible option.

[nochain]

Wifey made me these muffins...

Eggs,creamcheese, macadamia powder and a small amount of cranberry's.Taste great!!

Will try and work out the values but must be very low carb....